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Post by traveller1865 on Nov 16, 2017 8:24:56 GMT
Hi Taveller1865, I have just been admiring some of your fantastic ACW Diorama's on Benno's Forum and with you new found interest in the Napoleonic era, in particular Napoleonic figures in Greatcoats, a thought has occurred to me do you think you maybe getting a bit obsessed with Grey, Blue and Brown uniforms? or are you in possession of several tons of Grey, Blue and Brown paint? I got attracted to the the Napoleonic era above any other era mainly because of the beautiful and brightly colored uniforms and only have Greatcoated figures as a contrast to make the brightly colored ranks of men stand out even more. Have a look through Alexis amazing website it has all the uniforms from the Waterloo Campaign. centjours.mont-saint-jean.com/unites.phpI think with your painting skills your going to love painting Napoleonic armies although you may need your sunglasses. You're quite right, I have tons of browns and greys lol Not sure exactly why but the different tan earth shades just looks good, and mix well with the more colorful uniforms available, also I'm into realism, I want to see what it really looked like and not the fantasy portrayed in paintings and films we usually have to contend with. I also developed have some fascination for greatcoats since the miniseries Napoleon from 2006, the Austerlitz scenes did contain some for the different sides though I believe the headgear was wrong, the series wasn't that good though. I'm also going into WWI as I love the early British brown uniforms and German greys. The new HäT greatcoats look great and I'm gonna buy lots of em.
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Post by Edwardian on Nov 16, 2017 10:20:24 GMT
There are, I think, a very great number of figures already available that represent the local difficulty that flared up briefly in part of North America in the mid 1860s!
On the other hand, Austria was the most frequent and persistent enemy of Revolutionary and Napoleonic France over a period of some 20 years during which she probably committed more troops than any other Allied nation. A MAC infantry release with alternative head-gear opens up a good deal of the Napoleonic Wars to the 1/72nd gamer and complements the French and other Coalition releases HaT has already produced and which it is about to release.
It seems more logical to reinforce the excellent Imperial Napoleonic period releases, where HaT now dominates, than to embark upon what would be a new period for HaT (new save a single set of Zouaves), but which is one well-trodden by many others.
Not that I am against any release for any period, but I sense that HaT has a lot on its plate already and it seems to me that supporting the existing range with re-releases and making a limited number of additions that complement and fill gaps in existing ranges, probably has the best claim on its resources at present.
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Post by Minamoto on Nov 16, 2017 12:46:34 GMT
There are, I think, a very great number of figures already available that represent the local difficulty that flared up briefly in part of North America in the mid 1860s! Can only agree, especially as HaT are currently pumping out set after set but, well, some people are never satiisfied 7YW Austrians are up for voting and have been consistently high along with eastern front WW1 cavalries. Neither has had anything like the number of quality releases the ACW enjoys.
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Post by gbvarese on Nov 16, 2017 14:32:22 GMT
Dear Edwuardian, I perfectly agree with you . Giovanni.
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Post by traveller1865 on Nov 17, 2017 7:04:07 GMT
I don't think HäT should focus on just Napoleonics and WWI, though I really look forward to those sets. ACW still lacks a proper marching and command set. Also, some people want to start on something easy before going into the difficult uniforms, the ACW sets can be a road to other eras and eventually generate more sales for HäT.
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Post by Edwardian on Nov 20, 2017 14:05:10 GMT
good evening, so the next batch E29F is French Nap only. 8234 French Greatcoats 8294 1815 French Marching 8296 1805-1812 French Marching 8297 French command plus restocks Great! start saving money. Cheers. CPN
Now these are on their way, I have taken a closer look at 8294 1815 French Marching.
I notice that the elite company figures have both plumes and shako cords. Whilst plumes were officially re-introduced (and, of course, are easy to remove if that is one's preference), I understand that cords were not, and I think most of us are familiar with the coloured chevrons that were used instead, at least by grenadiers.
A good comparison is here:
That said, I have seen illustrations showing cords on elites wearing Bardin uniforms - there is one in an Osprey volume - but it seems to have been non-regulation, atypical and probably rare by 1815, so it seems an odd choice.
There appear to be 2 alternative heads with shakos on the test sprue, and they do not appear to have cords, so I imagine this is to allow the corded shakos to be replaced. If HaT can confirm what is included, that would assist planning.
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Post by Boney95 on Nov 21, 2017 0:59:54 GMT
Hi , hat 8034 young guard makes lovely centre companies in greatcoats, and marine artillery too.
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Post by MikeyV on Nov 21, 2017 12:45:38 GMT
There are new pics on the Hat twitter page.
There is something odd about the marching figures, the legs look like they are too far apart - the right leg looks too far back, not a natural looking pose imo. I wonder how hard these are, if it is possible to reposition the right leg with some glue I think they would look a lot better.
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Post by Edwardian on Nov 23, 2017 15:22:27 GMT
There are new pics on the Hat twitter page. There is something odd about the marching figures, the legs look like they are too far apart - the right leg looks too far back, not a natural looking pose imo. I wonder how hard these are, if it is possible to reposition the right leg with some glue I think they would look a lot better. I have no truck with social media, but others may find that useful!
8296 1808-1812 French Marching is now known as "pre-1812 French Marching", because it aims to cover the period from 1805, not 1807 (when the 1806 model shako first appeared).
So, the figures now sport bicornes of the 1805-1807 era (or, indeed, earlier), whereas the masters that used to be on the HaT site featured figures in shakos.
So, unless HaT is about to produce a true 1808-1812 set, as originally announced, some of us will be spending a lot of time de-capitating these new figures. Fortunately, alternative heads are included on the sprue. Less fortuitously, IMHO, this limits the figures to 6 per sprue, and, so, with the usual 4 sprues, we have a box of only 24, which is a small number by any standards, particularly compared with other Napoleonic marching sets.
The answer that suggests itself is to buy twice the number of boxes one would expect to! Well, I have no difficulty with this in principle, but it started me thinking of how HaT will price this set?
I wondered what views anyone might have. I am afraid I fall into the category of those who will notice if the going rate per-man of plastic 1/72nd Napoleonics is significantly increased in this set!
While there is no exact comparison with this 24-figure, alternative heads, set, there are a number of other marching sets that give some indication of the costs of building up battalions this way.
For instance, the HaT Marching Napoleonic Prussians gave us 40 figures (soft plastic), last retailed in the UK for £5.25 per box, i.e. 13p per figure.
More recently, we have seen Napoleonic marching sets including command from HaT (hard plastic) - British Infantry, Highland Infantry and Duchy of Warsaw Infantry - these are retailed in the UK for £7.99, and each set contains 44 figures, thus these are 18p per figure.
Perhaps a more meaningful comparison is HaT's SYW Prussians, as these have to accommodate alternative head-gear. They still managed 40 per box and currently retail in the UK at £6.25 per box, i.e. 15p per figure.
At 15p per figure, the new HaT early French marching set would be £3.60 a box. If the price were pegged against the most expensive per figure Napoleonic sets, those from HaT, the cost would rise to £4.32 per box.
While I recognise that the alternative heads represents additional costs, if this makes the per-figure costs too high, and out of synch with other sets on the market, it will affect sales.
I welcome an all-marching set, as it cuts down on the waste that most sets represent, as I generally use only a few "action" poses for a skirmish line. In this regard, HaT's Set 8095, 1808-1812 French Line Infantry, is far better value than most.
It contains 24 marching Fusiliers, 4 marching elites, and 12 marching topqrtes de colonne. In addition, I would use in proportion at least 4 action poses for the skirmish line. Thus, I am using a minimum of 44 figures from each box, which is still less than half the box. Still, it was a set that was extremely good value for money, so I reckon I was only paying 22p per figure used.
While we must accept some changes and price rises from time to time, I do hope that the pricing of these new HaT sets will be sympathetic and not be out of synch with HaT's major rival in this area. I confess, my expectation was that these would be 48-figure sets for around £8. Now I face the prospect of buying twice the boxes I had guessed I might if I want the same numbers. I hope the pricing will enable me to do so.
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Post by Brian on Nov 23, 2017 23:34:41 GMT
I will make use of the extra Heads, swapping heads is a fairly easy conversion and extends the usefulness of a set, so they are worth paying a little more for them to be included in the set, just to note the Waterloo 1815 French Infantry Marching set has 24 figures no extra heads and retails for £7.99 (33p per figure), so I am sure Hat will price their own French Infantry set much more competitively.
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Post by Edwardian on Nov 24, 2017 8:23:19 GMT
I will make use of the extra Heads, swapping heads is a fairly easy conversion and extends the usefulness of a set, so they are worth paying a little more for them to be included in the set, just to note the Waterloo 1815 French Infantry Marching set has 24 figures no extra heads and retails for £7.99 (33p per figure), so I am sure Hat will price their own French Infantry set much more competitively. I certainly hope so too, but, forgive me, the set you mention is not a meaningful comparison because it is not a marching set. A competitive price must be judged relative to HaT's previous marching sets, where, as I say, per-figure costs of 13p and 15p have obtained.
Having said that, we can, I think, allow for a little inflation, but I would respectfully suggest that anything over the 18p per figure cost (currently offered by HaT's marching sets) will make the HaT set over-priced compared with its own and its rival's marching sets and risks providing poorer value for money than HaT's own Set 8095, 1808-1812 French Line Infantry.
I am bound to question whether extra heads equals extra value such as to justify any significant extra cost. You still end up with only 24 figures, whichever head option you choose. Only for those who happen to have a bunch of spare torsos exactly suited to the spare heads in this set will their inclusion represent a saving. Perhaps I could put it like this, a slight premium reflecting the flexibility of alternative heads is one thing, but making both 1805-1807 and 1808-1812 French infantry significantly more expensive to collect than marching infantry of other nations and Napoleonic periods is not viable IMHO. I'd have to look at alternatives.
I could have bought more of Set 8095, 1808-1812 French Line Infantry, but confined myself to what I thought were my immediate needs because HaT had announced a dedicated marching set in shakos for 1808-1812. Now I find that an 'all things to all men' set has replaced it. Fair enough. I shall not grumble at the labour of having to replace all the heads, but I shall grumble if it pushes the costs of the project up significantly. Or, rather than grumble, I'll post Set 8095 on the re-stocks list, with a view to buying them instead.
Finally, unlike you, I am not sure that HaT will price this new set competitively. How can I assume that in the absence of any pricing information? Of course, I hope they price competatively, but we have a new team, new products and, I believe, new materials, so it very much remains to be seen what we will be offered in due course.
The corollary of this is that I have no reason to believe that HaT will price these sets uncompetatively either. I am not suggesting that they will. In the absence of information, I am simply giving a bit of consumer feedback, in the form of pricing expectations as a regular 1/72nd plastics buyer, whose piles and piles of boxes are probably at least 4/5ths HaT, which underscores the importance of HaT's releases for many of us. Frankly, that expectation, for just 24 figures, must be a sub-£5 price. £4.25 (17.7p) is, I suggest, the approximate market-rate price for 24 marching Napoleonics, as that is almost at the upper end of the per-figure costs we have seen hitherto in marching sets. The higher the price gets above that, the fewer boxes I am likely to purchase. Too high, and, regretfully, perhaps I will purchase very few or even none!
Others will disagree and perhaps some will buy almost regardless of cost. I don't have the economic luxury of disregarding relative value for money, and, in principle, a consumer should not have to.
So, forgive me, but I just wanted to throw my perception of value for money into the mix for HaT to consider, along with all the many commercial imperatives that they no doubt face when trying to bring a set to market, which is a commendable endeavour with which I am sure we all wish them well. I hope that this post can be taken as constructive feedback to this announcement, and a remain incredibly enthusiastic about this release.
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Post by richard on Nov 24, 2017 12:49:45 GMT
Edwardian, interesting bit of price comparison as I had certainly not given any thought to the price per figure.
I had a 13 year break from collecting (between 2003 and 2016) and was shocked to find prices had literally doubled with many makes upon my return!!! Hat were the only make who had not for the majority of their sets. I've still got the Harfields monthly catalogues from then that show just how cheap it was. Furthermore, all the sets I had not got round to buying originally (as my pocket money would not extend to them at the time) were all long gone and deleted!
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Post by Forum Admin on Nov 25, 2017 10:31:18 GMT
Please also take into consideration that some of these small sets have a large number of pieces all of which must be considered into cost. For example the French Command set has 92 pieces.
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Post by Edwardian on Nov 25, 2017 11:45:03 GMT
Please also take into consideration that some of these small sets have a large number of pieces all of which must be considered into cost. For example the French Command set has 92 pieces.
Fair point. Command sets, with alternative arms and requiring multiple pieces are perhaps a special case, though I note that the 8299 British Zulu War Infantry Command, which boasts 40 figures, 4 horses and, I believe, about 24 additional pieces, retails at £6.25, so 14p per-man or horse!
Perhaps the 24-man/4 horse 8304 British Infantry Command, which boasts 40 additional heads plus several separate arms, is a fairer comparison? What did that cost before it became unavailable? Assuming the same £6.25, that is 22p per figure, which I daresay is reasonable for a command set.
With marching Other Ranks, however, you just need a lot and you don't want to end up paying significantly more for the same number of figures simply because there are 2 sets of heads, only one of which you will use.
I would have preferred the set that was originally announced, with just the one head per figure, in a shako. I accept that HaT wants to cover an earlier period as well, and not have to make 2 sets to do it, as this no doubt saves HaT a large fortune in not having to make 2 sets of tooling.
The question is whether it costs me a small fortune because the sets are so much more expensive than they would have been if produced as originally announced?
Let's hope not, because I want 30 boxes worth of 8296 1805-1812 French Marching!
This is one of the finest Napoleonic sets ever made, IMHO. I only have the 1 set, and none of the matching marching Chasseurs, but it is everything a command set could and should be. I am glad that the Line will soon have its equivalent.
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Post by greentiger on Dec 1, 2017 15:20:23 GMT
Its the 1805 set that interests me - I hope it is going to include the extra heads that were originally planned.
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Post by aggiejohn on Mar 8, 2018 16:39:38 GMT
Has there been any news on these sets lately? The Prussian Landwehr are arriving now so I wonder if this means everything is advancing forward in production?
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Post by Marc on Mar 9, 2018 10:43:03 GMT
The missed opportunity with the French in greatcoats is that it does not include the action poses, nor the officer - surely one of the finest figures ever to grace Hat's range.
I hope that HaT sees fit to re-release the young guard set at the same time, as that will allow a greatcoated battalion to be modeled, although only the marching poses from the YG set will match, which is a shame. Up too now, to add elite companies, I have had to head swap onto the revell OG figures.
It seems we have waited a long time for this French release, and yet the box is still going to be incomplete. A real shame.
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Post by Graeme on Mar 9, 2018 13:13:19 GMT
Marc's right about that greatcoated officer, the second best figure HaT ever showed us. We need that figure in 1/72. Please put him in a set with the action figures. Or any other set, Spartans, Baggage Camels, Pomeranian Piccolo Players, anything.
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Post by Allan from Glasgow on Mar 10, 2018 13:26:15 GMT
Hi Guys do you know if their has been any changes announced for the pose quantities on these sets
8234 French Greatcoats (20 figure a box with 3 Poses)
8294 1815 French Marching (24 figure a box with 6 Poses)
8296 1805-1812 French Marching (24 figure a box with 6 Poses)
8297 French command ( 6 Command figs sprues and accessories )
Also i was wondering will the command sets work for the earlier 1805 - 1812 figures or is another command set in the planning?
I am about to pre order these sets but want to get the order correct first time, I think hat said that they would look at box quantities for futures sets but any news on sets about to be shipped would be welcome.
bfn
Allan
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Post by Boney95 on May 2, 2018 13:06:24 GMT
Hi. Any news on when these ‘mini’ Napoleonic infantry sets will be hitting the shelves?
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Post by Forum Admin on May 2, 2018 13:55:57 GMT
Planned for upcoming release.
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Post by Allan from Glasgow on May 2, 2018 17:23:45 GMT
Can you provide us with a clearer timeline I wish to put a pre order in with my regular supplier we already knew they were next in line for release, Looking forward to them being released.
thanks in advance,
Allan
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Post by Forum Admin on May 2, 2018 17:55:06 GMT
No time frame is known at this time, sorry.
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Post by Allan from Glasgow on May 2, 2018 18:53:26 GMT
Thanks for getting back so quickly, hopefully we will get good news soon.
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Post by endeavour on May 2, 2018 18:56:31 GMT
Is the plan still to release them in sets of 20/24 figures? How much persuading would it take for Hat to double these up in one box? 20 and 24 figures still seems woefully inadequate. I only speak for me but I have 71 Battalions in greatcoats waiting for their flank companies to arrive
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