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Post by paintdog on Apr 20, 2020 21:56:23 GMT
Look forward to seeing these once painted. I think I was a little too critical of the Hat Austrians, once painted up they are quite nice. Especially the Grenadier officer. I will certainly post a photo of my doubt ordinary painted figures.
I haven't gotten to the grenadier officer yet. Could you answer some questions on the grenadiers?
I'm assuming a grenadier drummer wears the bearskin? (easy head swop)
And would a grenadier NCO carry a pike or a firearm? (easy head swop if the former, impossible if the latter)
I've done some looking around the internet on this & looking at various metal figure ranges, a grenadier carrying a flag staff is quite common & I'm pretty sure that's wrong.
donald
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Post by minuteman on Apr 21, 2020 11:02:49 GMT
Hi donald, Just by chance I'm also looking at painting some Austrians soon (ish), and so have a couple of key references from my library to hand.
Christopher Duffy in 'The Army of Maria Theresa' has a contemporary picture on p27 (1749 Infantry Regulations) showing ensigns with colours, all wearing tricornes. Mollo and McGregor (Blandford Uniforms of the SYW) also has a plate of an ensign of Hoch und Deutschmeister wearing a tricorne (plate 55). Grenadier units did not have colours until well after the SYW when grenadier battalions were put on a more permanent footing. I have not come across any evidence of grenadiers carrying colours, and I suspect that in an army as rigid as the Austro-Hungarian this would not happen routinely.
I suspect that the metal figures showing grenadiers bearing colours are an example of the 'glamourizing' of wargames units that seems (understandably) to be prevalent in the hobby, perhaps with some sort of underlying belief that Napoleonic 'elite' colour parties had their origin in the 1750s! ?? This supposition on the part of some about "...the SYW being a bit like an early version of the Napoleonic Wars" again....!!
Molo and McGregor have a plate of a grenadier officer of Arberg with a fusil (plate 52). Duffy (p37) emphasises that early in Maria Theresa's reign (1740s) all officers were expected to carry a partisan and NCOs a half pike (plus a cane). But Duffy goes on to say that the partisan became less common in the late 1750s/early 1760s. Maybe this is an example of the reality of combat leading officers (and NCOs) to adopt the most effective weapon in preference to a badge of rank (as per British officers in the AWI). The Prussians though seem to have hung on to polearms for officers and NCOs throughout the SYW.
So.…, in my humble view at least....For the Austrians, probably a half pike for grenadier NCOs for early SYW, replaced (probably) by a firearm for later in the war.
Grenadier drummer in bearskin? Yes.... and Revell I'm sure did their research for the excellent drummer in their SYW set.
Hope this helps. Will be interested to see your Austrians when they are complete.
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Post by paintdog on Apr 21, 2020 12:03:33 GMT
This has been very helpful: thank you.
I suspect I will follow your advice about the pike carrying grenadier NCOs, particularly as my SYW French are more early war than not.
I paint in batches & have 9 Austrian hat-men finished & 12 started. They are very attractive figures & I'll post something when I get the 2 battalion regiment (ie 40 figures) completed.
I'm planning on using a mounted figure from the set as a Grenz officer. The conversion will be paint & using a modified plastic flag, to add a cloak. It will go on a base with a foot figure holding a flag to represent a commander for my Austrian light troops: hussars & the Lycaner Grenz. The flag, BTW, will be the 1743 green flag. I figure if anyone would hold on to an earlier model flag, it'd be the Croats.
donald
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Post by minuteman on Apr 21, 2020 13:15:41 GMT
Sounds very interesting and colourful! 1743 green flag, yes most definitely....
In addition to the much needed SYW cavalry sets, would you not think that a set of Austro-Hungarian Grenzer/Croats would also be useful? Maybe a mixed set with mainly foot and a few mounted? Exotic and useful, including also for Russian SYW and later in the century.
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Post by paintdog on Apr 21, 2020 19:32:51 GMT
My inspiration for the mounted Grenzer officer is this:
altefritz.blogspot.com/search/label/Austrian%20Army%20SYWYou can see from the photo of the Vauban fort further up in this thread that I'm fortunate to have acquired some beautiful resin figures of Grenz.Another dozen would not hurt. And for the wider collectors of SYW Austrians, you need these units in order to have anything like a complete army. Another sensible suggestion..donald a set of Austro-Hungarian Grenzer/Croats would also be useful?
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Post by photoroman on Jul 31, 2020 11:28:42 GMT
I have a feeling that the SYW, despite all its many battles, interesting armies, great uniforms, charismatic commanders etc etc, may just be a bit 'off the mainstream'. I suspect you may be an American, Minuteman (not that there's anything wrong with that)?
For me, the AWI is an anomaly. I certainly hope that HaT will release many AWI sets soon but they aren't in my sights. So it would be hard to say which tricorne hat-period would be more popular.
Size is another area where we are really discussing personal preference. I think the HaT SYW Prussians match Zvesda, Italeri (their Nap. Prussian cuirassiers are my preferred fodder to convert to SYW) and the wonderful metal Wodenfield figures (used for French SYW infantry). My SYW collection are mostly -big- 1/72 rather than the smaller Revell & others. The Revell SYW Austrian infantry are OK-ish & their artillery great. I use Revell cavalry but these are small I would be the first things replaced if HaT ever releases something to match their excellent Prussians.
Some of my games:
donald
Hey bookman, do we have any chance or seeing some of your conversions??? Would be greatly appreciated!
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