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Post by designteam on May 13, 2020 23:51:26 GMT
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Post by designteam on May 13, 2020 23:53:23 GMT
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Post by designteam on May 13, 2020 23:55:14 GMT
Any changes that can be made are best made at this stage!
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Post by rbhjr on May 14, 2020 1:24:11 GMT
Figures look great! Any chance that 1 of the advancing poses could have the angle of its arms/musket shifted to be more upright (like the French Chasseur pose in set linked here; hat.com/Curr2/Bx9304FCh/Bx9304FCh.htmlCheers
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Post by Mr Schmitt on May 14, 2020 9:20:20 GMT
I am sorry, but only grenadiers had sabres
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Post by stevo0113 on May 14, 2020 14:54:38 GMT
Great looking figures i really like the back packs & glad there is no gluing to be done..
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Post by Graeme on May 14, 2020 16:56:19 GMT
The only suggestion I can think off; if the packs are not separate, can the straps be made to line up with the packs? Not a huge problem if they don't but might be nice.
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Post by minuteman on May 14, 2020 19:22:41 GMT
The CAD sculpts are nice, but they are only virtual sculpts. In particular, I note the complete lack of character in any of the faces - they all look a bit surprised without any hint at all of the famous Hungarian ferocity in action. Grenadiers in particular need to have large and bristling moustaches and look even a tiny bit fierce - where are these heroes in plastic in these sculpts??
I don't think these would pass muster with most 28mm manufacturers. Would be good to see some masters in plastic (not CAD) please.
As with the Prussian wagons, I suspect that there is very little chance of seeing these produced before 2021...but will be pleased to hear if HaT are planning for end of 2020.
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Post by davidmac on May 14, 2020 21:24:17 GMT
These are certainly fine figures. Looking forward to seeing them in PSR.
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Post by rbhjr on May 15, 2020 3:12:45 GMT
I am sorry, but only grenadiers had sabres Actually not true. At the very least the Grenzers also carried sabers into the shako era, and I believe some regular Hungarian infantry still carried the pattern 1795 infantry Sabre as well. What the figures are missing are bayonet scabbards (which should be inside of the sword scabbards). That way the sword scabbards can be cut away for those wishing to using the figures as line troops without Sabre’s, and they can also be easily converted to Grenzer or Grenadier troops as well.
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Post by harlow on May 15, 2020 10:29:25 GMT
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Post by harlow on May 15, 2020 12:36:18 GMT
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Post by rbhjr on May 15, 2020 13:30:26 GMT
I am sorry, but only grenadiers had sabres Actually not true. At the very least the Grenzers also carried sabers into the shako era, and I believe some regular Hungarian infantry still carried the pattern 1795 infantry Sabre as well. What the figures are missing are bayonet scabbards (which should be inside of the sword scabbards). That way the sword scabbards can be cut away for those wishing to using the figures as line troops without Sabre’s, and they can also be easily converted to Grenzer or Grenadier troops as well. To support my view that some Hungarian infantry still carried the Sabre as late as 1809;https://vdocuments.site/the-austro-hungarian-army-1798-1814.html
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Post by waynew on May 15, 2020 16:34:34 GMT
Before we look into a kneeling firing pose (one of my favorites) should we not ensure the position was in the Austrian Manual of Arms at the time in question?
I discovered years ago and it has been debated on this forum that it had been discarded by many armies at the time in question.
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Post by Marco Zappa on May 15, 2020 19:34:03 GMT
I completly agree with this...and I want to ask you Hat designer to insert the jaegers too...two figures for only sprues...marching: one marching and one charging weapon standing ; command: one official and one kneeling firing; attac: one standing dire and one with hand in ammunition pack. What do You think? Saluti dall' Italia. Marco.
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Post by rbhjr on May 16, 2020 3:44:15 GMT
Before we look into a kneeling firing pose (one of my favorites) should we not ensure the position was in the Austrian Manual of Arms at the time in question? I discovered years ago and it has been debateed on this forum that it had been discarded by many armies at the time in question. The kneeling front rank had been discarded from the Austrian manual certainly by 1809, and likely earlier. When in broken ground, village fighting, and repelling cav, a kneeling firing pose would not be unheard of. That said, given the already limited # of “action” poses, a kneeling firing position would be a bit of a waste. If any kneeling pose would be useful, it would be one with its bayoneted musket braced and angled up & outward to repel cav (or be reloading) like the Armies in plastic pose seen Bottom row, 2nd from left here;
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Post by Roscoe Remington on May 16, 2020 7:22:22 GMT
I agree wholeheartedly with those who think that the advancing soldiers could be improved using other Hat figures as a guide--but I'm guessing it's too late for that. The one with his hands close together is a bit of a stinker. Anyway the set looks pretty good overall. Maybe a bit too chunky for the period. No fast food then except what you could pluck from a tree.
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Post by harlow on May 16, 2020 15:30:58 GMT
I agree wholeheartedly with those who think that the advancing soldiers could be improved using other Hat figures as a guide--but I'm guessing it's too late for that. The one with his hands close together is a bit of a stinker. Anyway the set looks pretty good overall. Maybe a bit too chunky for the period. No fast food then except what you could pluck from a tree. It´s not too late to improve or change poses. Read the lines of the designteam above! This is the stage for proposals... And to the discussion on the kneeling pose: It´s always a big difference between theory/manuals and practice. For the battle of Leipzig with many fights in villages a kneeling pose would been fine. My former critic was more focused on the strange first 2 poses of the mail at 1.53: How the figures are holding their rifles across their bodies. These 2 poses are useless for me... they aren´t really advancing....
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Post by rbhjr on May 16, 2020 18:29:02 GMT
I agree wholeheartedly with those who think that the advancing soldiers could be improved using other Hat figures as a guide--but I'm guessing it's too late for that. The one with his hands close together is a bit of a stinker. Anyway the set looks pretty good overall. Maybe a bit too chunky for the period. No fast food then except what you could pluck from a tree. It´s not too late to improve or change poses. Read the lines of the designteam above! This is the stage for proposals... And to the discussion on the kneeling pose: It´s always a big difference between theory/manuals and practice. For the battle of Leipzig with many fights in villages a kneeling pose would been fine. My former critic was more focused on the strange first 2 poses of the mail at 1.53: How the figures are holding their rifles across their bodies. These 2 poses are useless for me... they aren´t really advancing.... Harlow; If you mean the left and center figures in the below pick, I would disagree on at least the center figure, as I think his pose is very similar to an advancing pose in Hat’s 1/32 French Voltigeurs set, which I have found very useful to represent figures; advancing, fending of cav (in or out of square), attacking/engaging with bayonet & as a skirmisher (paired with a reloading or kneeling figure).
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Post by rbhjr on May 16, 2020 18:32:15 GMT
It´s not too late to improve or change poses. Read the lines of the designteam above! This is the stage for proposals... And to the discussion on the kneeling pose: It´s always a big difference between theory/manuals and practice. For the battle of Leipzig with many fights in villages a kneeling pose would been fine. My former critic was more focused on the strange first 2 poses of the mail at 1.53: How the figures are holding their rifles across their bodies. These 2 poses are useless for me... they aren´t really advancing.... Harlow; If you mean the left and center figures in the below pick, I would disagree on at least the center figure, as I think his pose is very similar to an advancing pose in Hat’s 1/32 French Voltigeurs set, which I have found very useful to represent figures; advancing, fending of cav (in or out of square), attacking/engaging with bayonet & as a skirmisher (paired with a reloading or kneeling figure). Here is a picture of the Hat Voltigeur pose I meant on far right
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Post by rbhjr on May 16, 2020 18:44:48 GMT
Another observation on the CAD renders; The Shako seems a bit off. The figures shako has the correct front and rear peaks, but the historic Austrian shako did not have any side brim or peak as these figures have. See the sides of these shako;
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Post by harlow on May 16, 2020 20:04:54 GMT
/Users/idas/Desktop/D8oZhY7.jpg
i mean these 2 figures from the left..... especially the second figure doesn´t advance and doesn´t suits for a line formation ...
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Post by harlow on May 16, 2020 20:08:41 GMT
Sorry, it didnt´t function to present the foto .... look to the second post of the designteam, first foto and not the fifth.... these figures are looking similar but they aren´t ....
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Post by Brian on May 17, 2020 18:12:47 GMT
These Hungarians are making good progress but in the pursuit of perfection here are my recommendations. Shakos the peaks should be front and back meeting in the middle but not extending up the sides (illustration No.1). Officer Shako front peak only with a gold band around the top (illustrations No. 4 & 3). Knapsack this should be a little higher along with cartridge box, water bottle, bayonet whilst assuring all straps line up correctly. Sabre officially withdrawn from all Line Infantry in 1798 except NCO's and Musicians so all the command figures are correct, the privates should have Bayonet only. Stature anatomically the body proportions are a little chunky especially on the legs, the men of the day would be expected to march 6-12 hours a day so should look more athletic (Hat's German Austrians are better). Missing poses are we going to have a mounted officer like set Hat 8328 (new arm position and hussar style boots would be good or brand new pose without Oberrock coat would be phenomenal) and the Sapper?
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Post by Stan on May 17, 2020 21:24:44 GMT
Thanks for sharing these renders! Can we expact these Hungarians also to be produced in 1/32 scale? I really hope so! Best regards, Stan
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