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Post by rbhjr on Jun 17, 2020 0:12:20 GMT
I cannot hold myself back from asking this but, Is a set of Hungarians still in the pipeline or on the shelve? And will there be a set of Grenadiers or are those now combined in this set since there are bearskins? I guess that would also work, in addition, a set of Hungarians would be great with additional headgear to make either Grenzers or Hungarian Grenadiers and fusiliers. That's entirely unknown at this time. It depends on too many factors to tell, one of which is if the Austrians fly off the shelves. But I don't think any decision on this set should be based on future predictions. But unfortunately such considerations do affect the desirability of the various options for this set. For instance; if sets of Austrian German Grenadiers are likely To be produced in the near future, then trading 3 figures per box in these German Fusilier MAC sets in exchange for the bearskin hats is much less attractive than otherwise. That said; I believe “a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the Bush” (aka; “I don’t expect German Grenadiers anytime soon”) so still would prefer these German Fusilier MAC sets with 5 figures and the extra hats. Cheers
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Post by pll on Jun 17, 2020 8:22:06 GMT
I think I agree with several others who suggest reducing the number of figures by one (one of the standing to attention figures) to maximise the option of five of each of the three various heads - helmet, shako and bearskin. This way we get as much flexibility to create a wide range of possibilities. The the most successful sets so far from HAT in 1:32 in my view were the SYW Prussians which offered the same format. As a result I bought many of these sets.
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Post by bongman on Jun 17, 2020 8:31:33 GMT
I'm going to throw my hat in the ring and go with the flow. 5 figures and as many optional hats as you can throw in.
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Post by Stan on Jun 17, 2020 16:00:23 GMT
Yes I do share your point of view! I am pro separate head anyways so, bring it on! A box of Hungarians would still be a great addition though. That's entirely unknown at this time. It depends on too many factors to tell, one of which is if the Austrians fly off the shelves. But I don't think any decision on this set should be based on future predictions. But unfortunately such considerations do affect the desirability of the various options for this set. For instance; if sets of Austrian German Grenadiers are likely To be produced in the near future, then trading 3 figures per box in these German Fusilier MAC sets in exchange for the bearskin hats is much less attractive than otherwise. That said; I believe “a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the Bush” (aka; “I don’t expect German Grenadiers anytime soon”) so still would prefer these German Fusilier MAC sets with 5 figures and the extra hats. Cheers
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Post by Stan on Jun 17, 2020 16:02:43 GMT
I cannot hold myself back from asking this but, Is a set of Hungarians still in the pipeline or on the shelve? And will there be a set of Grenadiers or are those now combined in this set since there are bearskins? I guess that would also work, in addition, a set of Hungarians would be great with additional headgear to make either Grenzers or Hungarian Grenadiers and fusiliers. That's entirely unknown at this time. It depends on too many factors to tell, one of which is if the Austrians fly off the shelves. But I don't think any decision on this set should be based on future predictions. Thank you for your awnser! Well I saw that the light infantry restocks allso sold really well as I see them been out of stock for the second sometimes 3rd time left and right. So I have high hopes but ofcourse we cannot let it depend on that. Best regards, Stan
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Post by rahway on Jun 18, 2020 19:05:37 GMT
The question is "How does reducing the number of figures in a box benefit the majority of customers, few of whom are figure convertors?"
When you are building units redundancy is a virtue. In other words: How many boxes will make a battalion?
What most buyers will look at is the number of figures that they are getting for their money.
Reducing the figure count to 15 from 18 effectively increases the price per figure from .83 (USD) to 1.00, or 17%, with no value added. Most purchasers do not convert so the extra hats will be valueless.
The SYW Prussians are not a good comparison. They are peg-heads and attaching or even changing hats is very easy.
To change hats with these Austrians the customer would need to do the following:
1. Saw the helmet off; 2. Pin/glue the shako or bearskin in place; 3. Fill in any gaps.
Most of the people who will potentially buy these sets will not want to do that. Actually, from what I see on FB I am wondering just what percentage even get painted.
To really match the Frederichians and do these Austrians as peg-heads the pack would have to be molded on the figure. Then you could get the 12 detached hats.
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Post by Stan on Jun 19, 2020 7:50:31 GMT
Well, I have always assumed that if they will do separate head gear the figures will come with the peg heads so its even easy if you dont feel like building and if you dont even paint them you can get a whole lot of boxes and just put them on different hats and you have many battalions ready to roll :-) I am very pro loose backpacks but if they are as good as with the 7YW figures I don't have any objection against molding them on to the figure. The question is "How does reducing the number of figures in a box benefit the majority of customers, few of whom are figure convertors?" When you are building units redundancy is a virtue. In other words: How many boxes will make a battalion? What most buyers will look at is the number of figures that they are getting for their money. Reducing the figure count to 15 from 18 effectively increases the price per figure from .83 (USD) to 1.00, or 17%, with no value added. Most purchasers do not convert so the extra hats will be valueless. The SYW Prussians are not a good comparison. They are peg-heads and attaching or even changing hats is very easy. To change hats with these Austrians the customer would need to do the following: 1. Saw the helmet off; 2. Pin/glue the shako or bearskin in place; 3. Fill in any gaps. Most of the people who will potentially buy these sets will not want to do that. Actually, from what I see on FB I am wondering just what percentage even get painted. To really match the Frederichians and do these Austrians as peg-heads the pack would have to be molded on the figure. Then you could get the 12 detached hats.
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Post by pll on Jun 19, 2020 9:51:50 GMT
Perhaps it would be good to see what the figures look like by just plugging in the three moulded hats on the moulded pin on top of the figures. I was assuming that the process would be an easy one to fit either helmet, shako or bearskin to any of the figures - rather than a more bespoke process of cutting and pinning each hat to the head to be done by us. If it is not an easy process to produce the desired result along the same lines as we could with the SYW Prussians then I can't see the point of what HAT is trying to do with this set. It needs to be an easy conversion process facilitated by the moulding and manufacture process undertaken by HAT. Can you (Design Team) give us a few figures where we can see how snugly the three moulded heads fit on to the moulded figures to produce the desired result?
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Post by rbhjr on Jun 21, 2020 17:23:46 GMT
The question is "How does reducing the number of figures in a box benefit the majority of customers, few of whom are figure convertors?" When you are building units redundancy is a virtue. In other words: How many boxes will make a battalion? What most buyers will look at is the number of figures that they are getting for their money. Reducing the figure count to 15 from 18 effectively increases the price per figure from .83 (USD) to 1.00, or 17%, with no value added. Most purchasers do not convert so the extra hats will be valueless. The SYW Prussians are not a good comparison. They are peg-heads and attaching or even changing hats is very easy. To change hats with these Austrians the customer would need to do the following: 1. Saw the helmet off; 2. Pin/glue the shako or bearskin in place; 3. Fill in any gaps. Most of the people who will potentially buy these sets will not want to do that. Actually, from what I see on FB I am wondering just what percentage even get painted. To really match the Frederichians and do these Austrians as peg-heads the pack would have to be molded on the figure. Then you could get the 12 detached hats. All good and fair points Rahway. I think the utility of the poses to be lost has to also be considered here. For the action set, the choice is between; A. 3 at attention poses and B. the extra bearskins & shakos Given that this pose is; A. a duplicate of another on the sprue, and B. Of less utility (at least to me and many others) I think the extra hats are worth the lost figures in this set. Now for the marching set, I may agree with you. Because while the poses are all more or less similar, they are also of the same utility. Therefore, the loss of 3 very useful figures in exchange for the extra hats is a clear reduction in value. So I would prefer; Action set with 15 figures and extra hats Marching set with 18 figures (no extra hats) The action set would provide the extra hats to convert figures from either action of marching sets to Grenadiers or shako fusiliers. Command set; while Hat hasn’t asked yet, I believe the command set should definitely have extra hats for conversion! Cheers
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Post by designteam on Jun 22, 2020 3:30:25 GMT
If the majority of customers do not wish to reduce the number of figures or convert, then that is the easiest choice. The question is "How does reducing the number of figures in a box benefit the majority of customers, few of whom are figure convertors?" What most buyers will look at is the number of figures that they are getting for their money. Most purchasers do not convert so the extra hats will be valueless.
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Post by pll on Jun 22, 2020 9:48:21 GMT
It is clear that there are a range of perspectives here about what people want. But the main difference seems to be maximum flexibility from the three hat options and the compromise of one less figure per sprue vs six figures per sprue and the loss of hat flexibility altogether or sacrificing separate backpacks and having them moulded on to figures. At the moment there seem to be five people arguing for the five figure per sprue option and just two arguing for the six figure per sprue. It is difficult to say with any confidence what the buying public for these figures in general would prefer, but on this forum more than two to one are in favour of maximum hat flexibility with five figures per sprue compared with the six per sprue option. But HAT has to find a compromise which most of us would be happy with even if it isn't our ideal choice.
I refer again to the SYW Prussian figures where we got 18 figures in the box with maximum hat change options. This allowed us to get 18 tricorne hats per box as well as nine each for the two taller cap hats. The figures here had perfectly acceptable backpacks and shoulder bags moulded on to the figure rather than separately moulded bags. This allowed us to have maximum number of figures per box and a great deal of flexibility of hat use. I would be happy to see this same formula used again. It would allow most of us to get most of what we want. We could get a box with eighteen figures, eighteen helmets, nine shakos and nine bearskins. I assume the design team can achieve this. Gluing on separate backpacks on HAT figures is not always ideal solution as sometimes they don't easily sit flush with the figures back/hips. This was the problem with the Napoleonic Russian sets I recall. The ammunition sachels and sabres sometimes hung out form the figure.
Some kind of suitable trade off compromise needs to be found that keeps the majority of us broadly happy with the outcome. Would this be the best solution in this case? I think this was a suggestion offered by Stan as well.
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Post by bongman on Jun 22, 2020 16:44:35 GMT
One of the people arguing for 6 figures is saying the majority of buyers want this though.
The SYW Prussians have a different type of backpack, one that is easily molded on to the figure. Napoleonic soldiers have a different type of backpack, one that is not easily molded on.
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Post by rbhjr on Jun 22, 2020 18:04:31 GMT
If the majority of customers do not wish to reduce the number of figures or convert, then that is the easiest choice. The question is "How does reducing the number of figures in a box benefit the majority of customers, few of whom are figure convertors?" What most buyers will look at is the number of figures that they are getting for their money. Most purchasers do not convert so the extra hats will be valueless. My views on the subject are not so strongly held as to want to risk delaying the production of these sets. I will gladly buy many many of these sets made with 6 per sprue with helmets on only and separate backpacks produced ASAP verse what I think would be the ideal sets for me sometime down the road. I however still strongly believe the command sets need extra hats!
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Post by Eliott on Jun 23, 2020 9:15:11 GMT
Good morning all Superb news from the Austrians at 1/32 scale. Whatever the formula chosen, I am interested Eliott
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Post by rbhjr on Jun 23, 2020 20:38:08 GMT
I think I have a solution That would make everyone happy!
Action set sprue; 6 figures, no extra hats, separate backpacks, 2 figures with bearskins (1 of the “at attention” & the “bayonet leveled” poses) & the 4 Remaining figures with helmets.
Marching set sprue; 6 figures, no extra hats, separate backpacks, 2 figures with bearskins & 4 other figures with helmets.
This does not reduce the # of figures per set and has better flexibility that all figures is Helmets.
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Post by Tripod on Jun 23, 2020 23:38:21 GMT
A box of Hat figures or a box of hats.I know what I would rather pay for.
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Post by Bismuth Dirgible on Jun 24, 2020 6:59:30 GMT
5 figures per spur.
Separate backpacks always makes the figures look better, and having the option to make different troops by switching headgear is a huge plus.
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Post by pll on Jun 24, 2020 15:39:51 GMT
It sounds like others want to compromise on other things. Perhaps we need to re-state what our main priorities are as well as what we are prepared to compromise on. This should make the job a bit easier for HAT.
I for one regard the flexibility that the three hat option gives to choose how I deploy these across all three sets not just the command set as rbhjr recently suggests above. That would be a loss to me not being able to use sets to create figures with shakos as well as helmets and bearskins - as well as which figures gets what. On the whole I would like more helmets than the other two hats. But with all three type of boxes ( in the MAC format) to be able to juggle choices and hat numbers between them.
I was prepared to lose three figures from the box to get this or take a moulded backpack as a second choice to get it. But ideally I would like to get my main preferences met. All of us will need to make some kind of trade off compromise because HAT can't give everything everyone wants because we all want slightly different things. Spelling out our main priorities as well as what we might compromise on hopefully should help. In weighing up what options to go with HAT will need to be able to sort out how it can keep the majority satisfied on the main priorities even if we don't get all we want.
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quarion
Praetor
Waiting for 1/32 Austrians!
Posts: 114
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Post by quarion on Jun 25, 2020 9:45:58 GMT
I think lose duplicate figures (like one of at attention in Action set) for separate caps and bearskins is not bad solution. But it sounds good for me only if we don't lose any pose (only duplicate figure). I agree that separate backpacks in Napoleonic figures gives better quality but only if they are well fitted like in Napoleonic Prussians sets (not like in Napoleonic Russians). SYW Prussians have the best solution for hats with pegs in heads.
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Post by designteam on Jun 28, 2020 0:52:20 GMT
Thanks so much for everyone's input. We will take all comments into consideration and aim for a solution that will be a good balance.
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Post by richard on Jun 28, 2020 8:29:18 GMT
The comments on this forum are by just a very small minority of your customers. You will not please everyone, as demonstrated by the conflicting views on this thread, so all opinions (including my own) should be taken with a pinch of salt. So hopefully you will not get 'bogged down' in the debates that go round and round. I assume you will know from sales and supplier/industry feedback which sets have been successful and what has made them popular, so hopefully you already have a good idea as to the formula to repeat. Ultimately you've got to make what you consider to be possible, both practically and financially. I don't collect your 1/32 range, but I am pleased to see you actively adding to the range for others who do.
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Post by Fritz on Jun 28, 2020 17:26:48 GMT
I am very glad to see these figures being produced. What a great addition to the collection. I have everything that HAT has produced in 1/32 and will continue to buy whatever comes. Here is my two cents: Mold the backpacks onto the figures--PLEASE! And do not sacrifice a figure to offer separate backpacks. The idea of various hats is great. so, to summarize: As many figures as possible, molded backpacks, many different types of headgear.
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Post by rbhjr on Jun 28, 2020 17:48:45 GMT
Thanks so much for everyone's input. We will take all comments into consideration and aim for a solution that will be a good balance. Thank you Hat! I hope whatever decision is made that the sets are produced soon as I have great need for over a hundred sets of them! Cheers
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Post by fish on Jun 29, 2020 20:26:34 GMT
Glad to see these getting made! I,m for the 5 figures sets with extra heads and back packs.
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Post by Stan on Jun 30, 2020 8:08:07 GMT
Glad to see these getting made! I,m for the 5 figures sets with extra heads and back packs. And glad to see you back Fish! Are you the Fish of the many great conversions of 1/32 Napoleonics?
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