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Post by Malcolm on Oct 7, 2017 20:29:34 GMT
Don't forget Red Box, if you are interested in the Italian Wars and 16th Century they do an ever increasing range that covers Landsknechts, Swiss, Italians, Spanish, Light Horse and Turks. Also their Jacobian British and Highlanders can also be used for the Seven Years War and French and Indian War. Now if only Hat could release their SYW Prussian Artillery and Austrian Infantry.
Best regards,
Malcolm
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Post by tonymather on Oct 10, 2017 11:08:01 GMT
In my view sadly the golden age of Hat has gone
Waited 10 years for their Sassanid cavalry to arrive and recently I have started painting the horses ( combining them with riders from another manufacturer ) The riders are far too small Both horses and riders lack any detail. The product on the sprue is a shadow of the original pictures or indeed the two Sassanid infantry sets - which are superbly executed
This is feedback from someone who has purchased 100+ boxes of Hat product
Regards...Tony
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Post by traveller1865 on Oct 12, 2017 14:05:48 GMT
I have to agree the HaT sets have a few faults mainly the weapons being a bit out of shape / size but they have improved so much in a short time & the faces of the figures are so well sculpted with genuine expressions that they look like real characters I find them irresistible & I think they look great when massed together as Napoleonic/ ACW figures should. Hat could also learn from their customer service always answering questions honestly & even giving sneak previews of new sets when complimented or asked they also give a true estimate of the timeline when new sets are going to be released. I painted up some of those HaT, I mean sorry but they're not that attractive... Now compare with HäT's ACW marching: Enough said!
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Post by Ironsides on Oct 12, 2017 19:51:57 GMT
I have to agree the HaT sets have a few faults mainly the weapons being a bit out of shape / size but they have improved so much in a short time & the faces of the figures are so well sculpted with genuine expressions that they look like real characters I find them irresistible & I think they look great when massed together as Napoleonic/ ACW figures should. Hat could also learn from their customer service always answering questions honestly & even giving sneak previews of new sets when complimented or asked they also give a true estimate of the timeline when new sets are going to be released. I would say Hät has always answered questions honestly and to the best of their knowledge, though possibly with rather to much optimism but here you are actually talking about two different methods of production I'm not sure if you realise that.... its like comparing apples and oranges......
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Post by billn on Oct 20, 2017 23:39:42 GMT
Changing the forum contributed. Another reason was that people got tired of waiting for HaT to get around to their era and moved on. If you keep telling people their era has to wait they will move to 15mm, 28mm or other scales where their era is already in production. Once their focus shifts they stop coming back to check in on what is happening here.
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Post by paintdog on Oct 21, 2017 10:01:52 GMT
Changing the forum contributed. Another reason was that people got tired of waiting for HaT to get around to their era and moved on. If you keep telling people their era has to wait they will move to 15mm, 28mm or other scales where their era is already in production. Once their focus shifts they stop coming back to check in on what is happening here. Or they buy metal figures.
Newline has a rather good British Zulu War wagon: I could easily buy a bunch of them. I'm not sure I can wait much longer for HaT's proposed wagons to surface.
HaT....they were good while it lasted.
donald
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Post by tadams1944 on Oct 28, 2017 15:36:21 GMT
Hmmm... what happened?
I don't agree that the golden age is gone, as Steve, above, has said, production continues, only the base has moved to Eastern Europe. HaT and Red Box are very active. I've picked up enough Red Box figures for two full Wars Of The Roses armies
If the question is what happened to HaT? It's far too early to offer any sort of post-mortem, since the patient is still very much alive. At the risk of annoying some and angering others, here goes.
First, management listened to the wrong opinions. Rather than taking a look at what periods/armies are most popular and rounding those lines out HaT spent a lot of money producing sets that won't sell. While others produce medievals, Napoleonics, WW2 figures, HaT produced obscure units that wargamers would only buy one or two packs of at most, WW1 East Africa German Schutztruppen, Ruga-Ruga and Askaris for example. Second, some of the product was of mediochre, even poor quality, examples are the WW1 Serbians, WW2 Polish infantry and the Gallic chariot drivers. My heart breaks for these poor little guys few folks would really welcome into their collections.
Third, that rubbery material HaT used for many sets made painting difficult and assembly even worse, going back to the Gallic chariots. I won't buy any more of those because they're a pain in the backside to trim and assemble.
Then there are the old Macedonian phalangites and Greek mercenary hoplites. Spears/sarissas should have been incorporated into the figures but that's another story.
I would say that I'd like to see HaT retool the WW2 Poles and WW1 Serbs, but First To Fight has the Poles covered and HaT has the Serbs covered and Zvezda's already got the WW1 Russian infantry covered too, very nice too, charging with the bayonet, with long Mosin Nagants with very long bayonets, very Russian. I would like to see HaT abandon the rubbery material for harder plastic once and for all!
I am happy that HaT is working on WW2 US infantry and 1940 British infantry, because I've just gotten a set of I Ain't Been Shot Mum and would like to raise a British infantry company to try out for Dunkirk and Calais holding action replays, and there aren't nearly as many GIs out there as there are Germans out there, the only Germans Caesar hasn't produced yet are Blitzmadels, though I imagine they will release them to oat some point and WW2 generally sells well. Kind of happy to see HaT trying out ACW which is popular, through HaT is going up against HaT in that area.
I'm not happy to see continued suggestions for more Victorians or relatively unknown and will gather dust on warehouses and not be sold troops like 1930's Ethopians and what not. All the popular troop types for the Victorian era have already been produced, they just need to be restocked.
What I would like to see from HaT, to more or less complete the WW1 selection is German infantry in stahlhelm, since HaT already produces WW1 Americans who need an opponent, and Italian infantry to oppose the WW1 Austrians. That and restocks, restocks, restocks.
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Post by paintdog on Oct 29, 2017 5:12:03 GMT
I'm not happy to see continued suggestions for more Victorians or relatively unknown What I would like to see from HaT, to more or less complete the WW1 selection I might not disagree with some of your argument but of course, you're using 'special pleading' with regards to WW1.
I've never, & will never, buy any ww1 set. The period does not interest me. However, I, at any rate, won't confuse my personal preferences with what's marketable. By your reasoning HaT should stick to WW2 Germans & Napoleonic French. Colonials (Victorians to you) are very popular. I understand HaT's Dervish Warrior set to be one of its biggest sellers. Adding to the period (Afghans, anyone?) would be worth consideration.
And, as even you admit, *completing* a period is very, very important.
So, what went wrong? Poor sculpting? HaT is mostly OK & look at HaT which made an art out of mediocre figures. Idiosyncratic sets? No. You can make sales from popular periods & less popular periods, providing you complete the range. What sort of a boom would HaT have if it released another 10 SYW sets? So what went wrong?: it's getting sets out on the market. This was what HaT used to do well. The snail's pace of releases is what's wrong.
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Post by Edwardian on Oct 29, 2017 12:21:39 GMT
Yes, I would advocate some basic and fairly common troop types, because there are still some surprising gaps.
I think filling in these gaps would support existing releases, but would be troop-types that someone building an army would need a fair number of.
For Napoleonics, I would argue that a format that 'ranks up', like MAC, or as we have seen with the Prussian Landwehr, marching and attack with integral command. To me it would seem obvious to apply either format to:
- Pre-1812 French Line Infantry - Bardin French Line Infantry - Austrians - Stove-pipe British Infantry
I realise that there are already figures in the range for (1) and (4), but I think sets all dong the same thing, e.g. marching, is better.
I would also suggest Prussian Landwehr cavalry, because there were a lot of them!
Other basics, to my mind, would be:
- WW1 British Infantry 1916-1918 (I think the faceless Canadians could now be relieved of that duty). HaT already does gun crews, heavy weapons and Highlanders to suit the later war period. - WW2 Early War British Infantry.
I don't think Victorian colonials are obscure; they have traditionally always been amongst the mainstream choices. Back in the day we relied on generic British Infantry from the likes of Spencer Smith, but standards of accuracy, and sculpting have moved on since then. The Zulu War is fairly well represented, but otherwise its very patchy in 1/72nd.
We have a couple of great Indian Army sets from the late Nineteenth Century.
How about some Indian Army Screw Guns and crew, to provide an "all arms" force and some British Infantry to go with them?
I know there are some fairly generic Highlanders, but we cannot have the 3rd Foot & Mouth fight every campaign, so how about:
- Second Afghan War British Infantry (with home service trousers); and,
- Late Nineteenth Century British Infantry with Slade Wallace equipment.
For a third colonial period choice I would go for Egyptian Infantry, preferably in the 'white' uniform.
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Post by waynew on Oct 30, 2017 13:17:06 GMT
As has been noted elsewhere there are many circumstances that have contributed to the relative lull in new production of HaT products. I don't believe we can truly count the company out when there are continuous restocks of product. No, your particular set might not be readily available now, but with over two hundred different sets (a prodigious effort compared to other companies) in their catalog to expect a constant flow of Pommeranian Piccolo Players is unreasonable, I think.
I cannot help but take exception that the quality of HaT's figures have had something to do with its "downfall" when I look at the enormous output of the company. Have their been some "fails" along the way? For sure, but when you look at it they are few and far between and relatively early in the game. The recent size SNAFU? Well, scaling has been a problem with just about all the companies at one point or another due to the nature of producing figures these days. I DO know HaT is taking the most strenuous efforts to prevent it in the future - which further adds to the delay of sets and adds to collector frustration. Which would you prefer? Rushing a large-sized misshapen set or taking time to ensure the set is as good as it can be while dealing with often obtuse individuals across the globe?
Frustrating? Oh yes, for us as collectors for sure. But imagine on the business end. Is it any wonder we lost Bill McMaster of BMC to a heart attack the year before last and several of my friends and acquaintances in the business have heart problems? Sounds crazy, but the amount of folks I know in the production side dealing with heart problems...
I think and hope (with reason, I believe) that what we are seeing is a transition in day to day management and perhaps business model. We'll have to see where that takes us. As one who grew up with Airfix and watched it go through its numerous throes and transitions - this recent thing with HaT isn't even a bump in the road. How many new sets has Airfix produced recently? There are sets in HaT's pipeline and projects have not been abandoned - delayed perhaps, as HaT works through its transition. In the meantime I recommend patience; IMHO, life is too short to get too worked up over toy soldiers. JMO.
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Post by garpant on Oct 30, 2017 16:44:50 GMT
I think there may be factors here that we are unaware of.Perhaps other business commitments or health or personal issues.it started out as the original plan of 100 sets.it's grown in the 200 plus, I don't know how many,I haven't counted.and they're still couple score in the planning production stage.That's Quite a feat.so its turned into quite a monster. I imagine a pretty heavy duty time commitment.so give the man a break and a little patience there.I have no idea how big of a staff is involved in this and I imagine just doing restocks is a big job in itself.hang in there guys it's not over yet.
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Post by Ironsides on Oct 30, 2017 19:38:21 GMT
According to the 8000 list there are 316 numbers, of which about 40 are in the process (Zulus,Belgians,Prussians etc), which leaves 276 completed sets in 1/72 in the Hät Catalogue... There are also the 1/32 and 28mm series, totalling about 75 completed and a dozen uncompleted projects... Together these make 350+ items completed and released in the Hät catalogue with around 50-60 sets in process or yet to be released.... A monster indeed! Even if you were able to run one tool a day it would take an entire year to run everything, forget about designing and dealing with making new sets, transportation to multiple countries, licences and all the official stuff needed to ship internationally and the delays it may intail... and of course printing boxes and more boxes.... If Hät completes the current sets Prussians, Zulus and releases the Belgians and French before christmas, 10 new sets will have come onto the market from Hät this year....
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Post by grumble on Oct 30, 2017 22:17:51 GMT
One of the things that I really like about HäT is the willingness to be different and not churn out the same-old WW2 Germans and whatnot.
Starting with my first HäT purchase, the ACW Zouaves way back when, I knew that here was a company not afraid to go out on a limb. Now, sometimes the limb breaks (think of the first effort at WW1 with Coates & Shine askaris and Serbs), but HäT came back and produced what is turning out to be an excellent line of WW1 -- admittedly there are still gaps, but where would I be without all the WW1 Middle East and Africa options from HäT? One other company has made Lawrence of Arabia Bedouin and is now promising camel corps Australians. HäT has been outstanding in this regard.
When I was kid in college reading A.J. Barker's account of the Mesopotamian campaign, I only dreamed of having these sets produced by a company. Thank you, HäT!
8070 WWI Ottoman Inf
8094 WWI Ottoman Artillery and Machine guns
8274 WWI Turkish Cavalry
8109 WWI German Artillery
8244 WWI Skoda 75mm Mtn Gun
8245 WWI Austrian 10cm Gun
8071 WWI ANZAC Inf
8153 WWI Australian Light Horse
8190 WWI ANZAC Heavy Weapons
8235 WWI Highland Infantry
8293 WWI British Khaki Drill 8177 WWI British Heavy Weapons
8256 WWI British Artillery Crew
8272 WWI British Cavalry
8236 WWI Indian Infantry
8203 Colonial War Indians
8289 Colonial Bengal Lancers
And for East Africa: 8268 Askari
8269 Ruga-Ruga
8270 Schutztruppe
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Post by paintdog on Oct 30, 2017 23:49:05 GMT
All of which is nice but it doesn't take much effort or months of transition to be informative, forthcoming, honest and to show some respect to the customer base. We all love HATS products, understand a business transition, changing business dynamics etc.that's why we are here. But frankly if new management can't after MONTHS tell us what products are in the REALISTIC pipeline, a rough idea on time of release, an idea on restocks and provide some level of honest information they have no business being IN management. Hat has nothing but my best wishes....but to be honest they have needed to get their act together for a long time now. Exactly. I couldn't have put it better.
N.B. You can have a human sympathy for someone's personal problems and a gratitude for past work but still express dissatisfaction from a customer's viewpoint on the current situation.
donald
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Post by Forum Admin on Oct 31, 2017 1:02:52 GMT
Thanks very much for your outpouring of heartfelt comments. There was an involuntary 2 year hiatus but your continued support has encouraged us to take a second wind, the results of which should follow and be visible.
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Post by Edwardian on Oct 31, 2017 9:22:05 GMT
My sense from forums in this, and other modelling hobbies, is that a little bit of responsiveness from a manufacturer always goes a long way to preserve the store of goodwill that products with a following engender.
By the same token, it is good when the customer base responds with understanding and measured expectations.
HaT has been a veritable golden goose over the years. Yes, it is always possible to spot some obvious omissions; no one, HaT included, has yet produced a definitive set of Napoleonic French infantry, though the posting of the painted command shot suggests that this is about to change in relation to the 1808-1812 period at least.
It is healthy to encourage the range to develop, but I always have in mind how HaT has already almost single-handed revolutionised plastic 1/72nd figure.
We have more periods/theatres, better coverage of them, and a general trend of improving quality and accuracy. Another great innovation has been the dedicated marching sets, and thought is given to the need for pre-rapid fire rifle wargamers to rank-up their troops.
As a result, there is a world of possibilities that simply did not exist pre-HaT.
Some old sets could, frankly, do with "re-tooling", and I am really not a fan of the very soft plastic that has been used in recent years, but, I am sure HaT will continue to go from strength to strength.
You only have to imagine a world without HaT products. We'd probably be spending a lot more money on rather fewer 28mm figures if HaT had not existed.
I wish the newly invigorated HaT every success.
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Post by waynew on Oct 31, 2017 23:16:43 GMT
How many of us on this forum remember when HaT started and the stated purpose of the company was to produce sets that had never been produced before? The sets we dreamed about as kids but had to "make do?" To fill the "gaps" left by previous producers in armies, units, and eras? I believe HaT has lived up to that promise and then some.
But I'm STILL waiting for my Pommeranian Piccolo Players...
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Post by gerd on Nov 1, 2017 10:59:37 GMT
Hello,
despite all the problems, I am very happy that HÄT continues to produce new figures for us. Which really active manufacturers are there really yet ? And will their personnel and financial capacity not even reach limits, if they have more than 300 sets in stock at some point? We should remain fair and hope that HÄT will handle the logistical problems with new people and new structure.
In my view the Prussian Landwehr project is a good step on this way. And if HÄT succeeds in bringing the Landwehr figures to market until Christmas, this will also bring good revenue. With our crowdfunding-financing, we have contributed to this and are now hoping for a great success.
So I say; Forward HÄT !!!
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Post by Edwardian on Nov 1, 2017 11:40:14 GMT
It's a funny old world. Airfix has proved itself capable of some very good new kits in the last few years, but has demonstrated a complete inability to introduce new figures; witness the failure to produce the WW1 sets.
Revell's re-issues are welcome, but it doesn't seem to be doing anything new, while it is nothing sort of tragic that Zvezda abandoned its range in favour of those odd little Art of Tactic sets.
Waterloo 1815 are a mixed bag and Emhar still seem to produce the odd new set (though I don't care how much Plastic Soldier Review likes their new Napoleonics, IMHO they're retrograde in terms of a mix of poses all running round doing different things that make it hard to form them into a body of men!)
Caesar I like a lot, but they seem to delete sets and do not cover a huge range of periods, at least those that interest me. A bit of Polyfilla up the back coat vent, and HaT's early WW1 French are more accurate than Caesar's newly released version.
For me, there are just two manufacturers with 'critical mass' who are both sustaining and carrying forward 1/72nd plastics.
One of them, and I didn't see that coming, is HaT, which seems to be pulling off an ugly duckling to swan stunt with Napoleonic marching sets, Arab Revolt and Roman Auxiliaries.
The other, of course, is HaT.
While HaT has a large catalogue, most of it is, frankly, not to my taste in terms of the sculpting. HaT have a few sets that would bear re-tooling, e.g. Nap. French Line Lancers (there are problems with Waterloo 1815's).
Clearly HaT has a head start in terms of the number of sets, breadth of coverage and quality.
I would say there is room for both. I am, for instance, planning to use HaT Arab Revolt figure for Ottoman Arab irregulars in Mesopotamia to complement the HaT Empire and Ottoman armies. In due course I hope to see a HaT marching set of French Bardin uniform infantry facing HaT marching British Infantry and HaT marching Prussians.
I sincerely hope that, whatever happens to other manufacturers, HaT will support its 'back-catalogue' with re-stocks and expand its range.
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Post by Malcolm on Nov 2, 2017 9:25:11 GMT
Edwardian, you forgot to mention Red Box. So although at present I am more interested in the SYW AWI period I am still buying bucket fulls of the Early Renaissance sets that to date cover: Landershnect, Swiss, Italians Spanish and English. In fact I have just purchased the 1/72nd scale Airfix "Golden Hind" to use with the English sailors and a couple of ships boats to use with the rowing figures in the Italian Sailors sets. This company has dramatically improved its sculpting since the Boxer Rebellion sets.
To agree with the general concensus, the slow trickle of sets from Hat is disappointing and the mis-scaling of the British Heavy and Light Dragoons was particularly frustrating.
Best regards,
Malcolm
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Post by Edwardian on Nov 5, 2017 11:11:38 GMT
Edwardian, you forgot to mention Red Box. So although at present I am more interested in the SYW AWI period I am still buying bucket fulls of the Early Renaissance sets that to date cover: Landershnect, Swiss, Italians Spanish and English. In fact I have just purchased the 1/72nd scale Airfix "Golden Hind" to use with the English sailors and a couple of ships boats to use with the rowing figures in the Italian Sailors sets. This company has dramatically improved its sculpting since the Boxer Rebellion sets. To agree with the general concensus, the slow trickle of sets from Hat is disappointing and the mis-scaling of the British Heavy and Light Dragoons was particularly frustrating. Best regards, Malcolm You are quite right.
The 3 Government sets for the Jacobite Rebellion are superb. Unfortunately the enemy, in the form of the 2 HaT Jacobite sets are not worthy opponents, IMHO.
I have been watching the Renaissance sets with interest. I agree that they are excellent. And very tempting.
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Post by grumble on Nov 7, 2017 22:49:33 GMT
How many of us on this forum remember when HaT started and the stated purpose of the company was to produce sets that had never been produced before? The sets we dreamed about as kids but had to "make do?" To fill the "gaps" left by previous producers in armies, units, and eras? I believe HaT has lived up to that promise and then some. But I'm STILL waiting for my Pommeranian Piccolo Players... Waynew, you said it very well, and my post above about WW1 Middle East (and East Africa) is a case in point. I only have one question: were the Pomeranian Piccolo Players ever present in the Mesopotamian WW1 campaign? I can't seem to find photographs or even references to them. There were apparently some Turkish Tamboura Troops, though. I guess they learned to play that instrument during the Balkan Wars -- or picked it up from the Indian troops of the Empire?
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