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Post by Edwardian on Nov 3, 2017 7:42:53 GMT
I hope it is in order to start a new topic on this. I realise that these matters have been touched on in several other threads, but I thought there might be less chance of contributions being lost to view if they were concentrated in a dedicated topic.
Several members have made suggestions. I have a few.
I have a fundamental concern over crowd-funding cavalry sets. Man & horse to man, people will, presumably, always need more infantry figures.
That said, I am keen to explore the options for getting certain sets to market, and, indeed, means of resurrecting sets that seem to have fallen by the wayside.
So, I would start with the following suggestions:
- Prussian Landwehr Cavalry - It is a most significant gap, all the more so because we have been so well catered for with later-war Prussians. We have Line infantry and now Landwehr infantry covered, various figures suitable for reserve infantry, we have foot artillery and most of the regular cavalry types (uhlans, hussars, dragoons). As the 1813-15 Prussian army brigaded Landwehr and regular units together, any formation above regimental unit size is typically going to include a Landwehr unit, and this is true of cavalry as well as infantry.
There were a number of variations, so, I suspect the format would need to be one that covered 3 or 4 distinct uniform variations and multiple boxes might be necessary to give one a unit in each (depending of size of one's army and the chosen figure ratio. I favour an indulgent 1:20, and plastic 1/72nd, both in terms of cost and space, easily affords us the luxury of 'Grand Manner' formations).
Incidentally, I would love a Prussian horse artillery set, but suspect that is unrealistic.
- British Peninsular Light Cavalry - This is a disappointment that many of us share, and an opportunity for HaT to engage with fans and customers.
It seems implicit from what has been announced, that mistakenly producing them in 28mm precludes making them in 1/72nd. Of course, I may have misinterpreted that. I do not have any understanding of the manufacturing process, so do not understand how this might be the case. Is this a commercial or a technical issue? Can the masters be used to create a 1/72nd set/can they be re-sized, or would it be a case of starting from scratch?
In short, what is the nature of the problem here?
Is this a situation that crowd-funding/pre-ordering could unlock?
- British Peninsular Heavy Cavalry - Ditto
- 1815 French Infantry Marching Command - I understand that the masters were lost. I think it would be redundant to detail why such a set would be a good idea, not least if there is to be a marching set that will need topqrtes de colonne.
Again, is this a situation that crowd-funding/pre-ordering could unlock?
What might be other suitable Napoleonic candidates?
Is it going to be possible to get enough steam up in support of any of them?
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Post by paintdog on Nov 3, 2017 11:25:28 GMT
Prussian Landwehr cavalry: yes. The French infantry command: yes....if there were accompanying sets of fusiliers, voltigeurs & grenadiers. The Peninsular War is of no interest.
donald |
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Post by Graeme on Nov 3, 2017 13:22:56 GMT
Hi Edwardian. Re. the Penisular cav. As I understand it these were made under the old manufacturing whereby sets could be scaled up or down from one set of masters using a pantograph. If you ever used a drawing tool like this as a kid, that's a pantograph in it's simplest form: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantograph#/media/File:Pantograph_animation.gifImagine one of these with a cutting tool on the end instead of a pen, and you can move it in three dimensions rather than just two and you've got the basic idea. HaT's new system uses CAD so I suppose the masters are digital, sizing is done on the computer and the sizing test figures we saw were 3D printed. I'm not sure if this means the old masters can't be used for the new system or if the master figures can be 3D scanned to digitise them (although HaT have said that they are making sets with existing masters first). Either way I don't think the masters are the biggest hurdle. The figures were made in 28mm which means the mould was cut in 28mm and, I believe, cutting the mould is by far the most expensive and time consuming part of the manufacturing process. (note that HaT's moulds are not the relatively fast, cheap and short lived soft moulds some others use but are milled from blocks of steel). A 1/72 set would require at least a new mould. I don't know the situation with the 1815 command set but if the moulds were lost then a new set might have to recoup two lots of manufacturing costs before it makes a profit. There might be other factors involved but I think the bloke in your avatar would advise us not to speculate. Anyway, I would support all 3 of these sets if they came up for crowd funding(don't forget the heavy cav). I would buy them if they were made under normal production. Crowd funding might determine if resurrecting these is viable. The downside is if they don't reach the target due to peoples resistance to crowd funding they might be cancelled unnecessarily. I like the idea of Prussian Landwehr Cavalry too. And yes, we do need the various uniforms, or at the very least we need some figures in czapkas and kollets so we can head swap with the uhlans and dragoons (this would mean we also need restocks of the uhlans and dragoons). Although HaT have said they are working on sets with existing masters first. |
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Post by Edwardian on Nov 3, 2017 14:34:06 GMT
Hi Edwardian. Re. the Penisular cav. As I understand it these were made under the old manufacturing whereby sets could be scaled up or down from one set of masters using a pantograph. If you ever used a drawing tool like this as a kid, that's a pantograph in it's simplest form: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantograph#/media/File:Pantograph_animation.gifImagine one of these with a cutting tool on the end instead of a pen, and you can move it in three dimensions rather than just two and you've got the basic idea. HaT's new system uses CAD so I suppose the masters are digital, sizing is done on the computer and the sizing test figures we saw were 3D printed. I'm not sure if this means the old masters can't be used for the new system or if the master figures can be 3D scanned to digitise them (although HaT have said that they are making sets with existing masters first). Either way I don't think the masters are the biggest hurdle. The figures were made in 28mm which means the mould was cut in 28mm and, I believe, cutting the mould is by far the most expensive and time consuming part of the manufacturing process. (note that HaT's moulds are not the relatively fast, cheap and short lived soft moulds some others use but are milled from blocks of steel). A 1/72 set would require at least a new mould. I don't know the situation with the 1815 command set but if the moulds were lost then a new set might have to recoup two lots of manufacturing costs before it makes a profit. There might be other factors involved but I think the bloke in your avatar would advise us not to speculate. Anyway, I would support all 3 of these sets if they came up for crowd funding(don't forget the heavy cav). I would buy them if they were made under normal production. Crowd funding might determine if resurrecting these is viable. The downside is if they don't reach the target due to peoples resistance to crowd funding they might be cancelled unnecessarily. I like the idea of Prussian Landwehr Cavalry too. And yes, we do need the various uniforms, or at the very least we need some figures in czapkas and kollets so we can head swap with the uhlans and dragoons (this would mean we also need restocks of the uhlans and dragoons). Although HaT have said they are working on sets with existing masters first.
Very informative.
Sounds as if it would be possible to produce 1/72nd provided the tooling costs could be met.
I would love to see the 2 Peninsular Cavalry sets, the Light Dragoons would be particularly adaptable for all sorts of light cav.
Turning to the Landwehr cavalry, out of the 35 cavalry regiments in the Prussian 1815 OOB, 15 appear to have been Landwehr.
Some, somewhat old scholarship, examples:
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Post by Arthur 'Two Sheds' on Nov 3, 2017 22:37:55 GMT
The aforementioned sets don't come close to the Austrian infantry in importance.
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Post by Brian on Nov 4, 2017 23:03:19 GMT
I hope it is in order to start a new topic on this. I realise that these matters have been touched on in several other threads, but I thought there might be less chance of contributions being lost to view if they were concentrated in a dedicated topic.
Several members have made suggestions. I have a few.
I have a fundamental concern over crowd-funding cavalry sets. Man & horse to man, people will, presumably, always need more infantry figures.
That said, I am keen to explore the options for getting certain sets to market, and, indeed, means of resurrecting sets that seem to have fallen by the wayside.
So, I would start with the following suggestions:
- Prussian Landwehr Cavalry - It is a most significant gap, all the more so because we have been so well catered for with later-war Prussians. We have Line infantry and now Landwehr infantry covered, various figures suitable for reserve infantry, we have foot artillery and most of the regular cavalry types (uhlans, hussars, dragoons). As the 1813-15 Prussian army brigaded Landwehr and regular units together, any formation above regimental unit size is typically going to include a Landwehr unit, and this is true of cavalry as well as infantry.
There were a number of variations, so, I suspect the format would need to be one that covered 3 or 4 distinct uniform variations and multiple boxes might be necessary to give one a unit in each (depending of size of one's army and the chosen figure ratio. I favour an indulgent 1:20, and plastic 1/72nd, both in terms of cost and space, easily affords us the luxury of 'Grand Manner' formations).
Incidentally, I would love a Prussian horse artillery set, but suspect that is unrealistic.
- British Peninsular Light Cavalry - This is a disappointment that many of us share, and an opportunity for HaT to engage with fans and customers.
It seems implicit from what has been announced, that mistakenly producing them in 28mm precludes making them in 1/72nd. Of course, I may have misinterpreted that. I do not have any understanding of the manufacturing process, so do not understand how this might be the case. Is this a commercial or a technical issue? Can the masters be used to create a 1/72nd set/can they be re-sized, or would it be a case of starting from scratch?
In short, what is the nature of the problem here?
Is this a situation that crowd-funding/pre-ordering could unlock?
- British Peninsular Heavy Cavalry - Ditto
- 1815 French Infantry Marching Command - I understand that the masters were lost. I think it would be redundant to detail why such a set would be a good idea, not least if there is to be a marching set that will need topqrtes de colonne.
Again, is this a situation that crowd-funding/pre-ordering could unlock?
What might be other suitable Napoleonic candidates?
Is it going to be possible to get enough steam up in support of any of them?
Hi Edwardian, All 4 sets are very much needed and if Hat were producing sets as quickly as they did at their peek I would be all for them, but as you mention yourself people will, presumably, always need more infantry figures, I will therefore be pushing very strongly for the long awaited, even more needed 1/72 Nap Austrian Infantry. I hope you will support the Crowdfunding for the Nap Austrian infantry too and one day we can both request the 4 sets you mentioned. Brian |
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Post by Edwardian on Nov 5, 2017 10:53:06 GMT
I hope it is in order to start a new topic on this. I realise that these matters have been touched on in several other threads, but I thought there might be less chance of contributions being lost to view if they were concentrated in a dedicated topic.
Several members have made suggestions. I have a few.
I have a fundamental concern over crowd-funding cavalry sets. Man & horse to man, people will, presumably, always need more infantry figures.
That said, I am keen to explore the options for getting certain sets to market, and, indeed, means of resurrecting sets that seem to have fallen by the wayside.
So, I would start with the following suggestions:
- Prussian Landwehr Cavalry - It is a most significant gap, all the more so because we have been so well catered for with later-war Prussians. We have Line infantry and now Landwehr infantry covered, various figures suitable for reserve infantry, we have foot artillery and most of the regular cavalry types (uhlans, hussars, dragoons). As the 1813-15 Prussian army brigaded Landwehr and regular units together, any formation above regimental unit size is typically going to include a Landwehr unit, and this is true of cavalry as well as infantry.
There were a number of variations, so, I suspect the format would need to be one that covered 3 or 4 distinct uniform variations and multiple boxes might be necessary to give one a unit in each (depending of size of one's army and the chosen figure ratio. I favour an indulgent 1:20, and plastic 1/72nd, both in terms of cost and space, easily affords us the luxury of 'Grand Manner' formations).
Incidentally, I would love a Prussian horse artillery set, but suspect that is unrealistic.
- British Peninsular Light Cavalry - This is a disappointment that many of us share, and an opportunity for HaT to engage with fans and customers.
It seems implicit from what has been announced, that mistakenly producing them in 28mm precludes making them in 1/72nd. Of course, I may have misinterpreted that. I do not have any understanding of the manufacturing process, so do not understand how this might be the case. Is this a commercial or a technical issue? Can the masters be used to create a 1/72nd set/can they be re-sized, or would it be a case of starting from scratch?
In short, what is the nature of the problem here?
Is this a situation that crowd-funding/pre-ordering could unlock?
- British Peninsular Heavy Cavalry - Ditto
- 1815 French Infantry Marching Command - I understand that the masters were lost. I think it would be redundant to detail why such a set would be a good idea, not least if there is to be a marching set that will need topqrtes de colonne.
Again, is this a situation that crowd-funding/pre-ordering could unlock?
What might be other suitable Napoleonic candidates?
Is it going to be possible to get enough steam up in support of any of them?
Hi Edwardian, All 4 sets are very much needed and if Hat were producing sets as quickly as they did at their peek I would be all for them, but as you mention yourself people will, presumably, always need more infantry figures, I will therefore be pushing very strongly for the long awaited, even more needed 1/72 Nap Austrian Infantry. I hope you will support the Crowdfunding for the Nap Austrian infantry too and one day we can both request the 4 sets you mentioned. Brian Brian,
I agree. I will add my vote to the Austrians. If these figures became available, I would start collecting for these central European campaigns.
What is proposed? Is it just helmets, or are alternative heads with shakos proposed? Is it just 'German' regiments or are there 'Hungarian'?
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Post by waynew on Nov 5, 2017 19:40:10 GMT
I've been asking for Pommeranian Piccolo Players a LOT longer than you for Landwehr Cavalry OR Austrian Infantry - but I would gladly join in crowdfunding for either or both...
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Post by Graeme on Nov 6, 2017 10:54:26 GMT
I've been asking for Pommeranian Piccolo Players a LOT longer than you for Landwehr Cavalry OR Austrian Infantry - but I would gladly join in crowdfunding for either or both... With Pommeranian Piccolo Player bonus figures, obviously. |
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Post by waynew on Nov 7, 2017 1:45:45 GMT
I've been asking for Pommeranian Piccolo Players a LOT longer than you for Landwehr Cavalry OR Austrian Infantry - but I would gladly join in crowdfunding for either or both... With Pommeranian Piccolo Player bonus figures, obviously. Or rapturous tavern wenches - both? |
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Post by Graeme on Nov 7, 2017 2:48:56 GMT
Yes! Both.  |
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Post by Pierre on Nov 7, 2017 8:16:03 GMT
Hi
what I really need is artillery limber (prussian and russian). For WWII (russian) it is necessary too.
Thank you
Pierre
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Post by cpn on Nov 8, 2017 20:15:57 GMT
good evening,
A smart RUSSIAN HORSE ARTILLERY could achieve a covering period from 1805 to 1815 by being able to cut the crested helmet accordingly.(like the dragoons)
That said if you go for crowdfounding I rather have only two guns per boxes but two crews of 6 with one firing and the other loading/aiming.
Your thoughts?
Have a glorious evening.
CPN
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Post by mateus on Nov 9, 2017 17:23:54 GMT
Let's not forget the need for napoleonic late prussian cuirassiers. There is no such option made in plastic 1/72 by any manufacturer.
Waterloo 1815 recently released a set in metal, but a box of 6 horsemen costs as much as 2 or 3 boxes of plastic with 12-18 horsemen from other manufacturers, so I guess I'll keep bugging Hat to come up with a set of their own.
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Post by Forum Admin on Nov 9, 2017 17:59:51 GMT
Let's not forget the need for napoleonic late prussian cuirassiers. There is no such option made in plastic 1/72 by any manufacturer. Waterloo 1815 recently released a set in metal, but a box of 6 horsemen costs as much as 2 or 3 boxes of plastic with 12-18 horsemen from other manufacturers, so I guess I'll keep bugging Hat to come up with a set of their own. I seem to recall that the biggest issue with these cavalry was that they were not at Waterloo? |
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Post by mateus on Nov 9, 2017 18:42:57 GMT
They were not. However, we have the entire 1813-1814 campaign to use them for, which to me is the most interesting period of the napoleonic wars, with pretty much every nation of Europe at the field at the same time. How can we build a late war prussian army and not include these magnific gentlemen?  |
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Post by cpn on Nov 9, 2017 18:56:49 GMT
I strongly support the idea of these magnificent horsemen.
Actually, with a smart approach, you can make 3 sets in one to represent 70% of Nap Prussian cavalry:
- choose the options of dressing them with Litewka
- provide different sets of arms with heavy cavalry swords, light cavalry swords, lances
- provide headgear with helmets or Prussian Shakos
Only the horses will have to be chosen from the cuirassier ones or the dragoons/uhlans ones.
your thoughts?
CPN
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Post by Edwardian on Nov 9, 2017 19:17:27 GMT
Brunswick Artillery has been mentioned on this site. I'd support that.
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Post by mateus on Nov 10, 2017 11:03:47 GMT
I strongly support the idea of these magnificent horsemen. Actually, with a smart approach, you can make 3 sets in one to represent 70% of Nap Prussian cavalry: - choose the options of dressing them with Litewka - provide different sets of arms with heavy cavalry swords, light cavalry swords, lances - provide headgear with helmets or Prussian Shakos Only the horses will have to be chosen from the cuirassier ones or the dragoons/uhlans ones. your thoughts? CPN CPN, I agree the entire landwehr cavalry could be combined into a single kit, all dressing the litewka, with different options of headswear, such as on the example shown by Edwardian a few posts above, and the option of sword or lance. Putting the cuirrassiers in the same kit, however, would be oversimplificating. First, they require men and horses to be a bit bigger, their swords are different and, most importantly, it would be disappointing if they were portraited in the litewka. Several sources mention that even though the litewka was part of their campaign dress, in battle proper they were ordered to wear the koletts. The reason being that they offered a far better visual spectacle, in their ellegant white uniforms, so Hat better give me my kolett-dressing cuirrassiers! |
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Post by mateus on Nov 10, 2017 11:09:08 GMT
Just to complement:
Hat has already given us awesome prussian line infantry, envied by those playing other scales, and now we have landwehr infantry comming. They should continue concentrating on expanding their prussian range, with the addition of an updated prussian artillery kit (which the admin mentioned is on the works), landwehr cavalry and late cuirassiers.
All stuff that is completely lacking in the market, from any manufaturer.
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Post by Edwardian on Nov 10, 2017 17:54:22 GMT
Just to complement: Hat has already given us awesome prussian line infantry, envied by those playing other scales, and now we have landwehr infantry comming. They should continue concentrating on expanding their prussian range, with the addition of an updated prussian artillery kit (which the admin mentioned is on the works), landwehr cavalry and late cuirassiers. All stuff that is completely lacking in the market, from any manufaturer. Couldn't agree more.
The Prussian artillery set would bear revision. Perhaps this is an opportunity to consider how horse artillery might be added?
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Post by greentiger on Jan 6, 2018 13:27:51 GMT
Austrian Hussars.
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Post by Marco Zappa on Jan 7, 2018 17:05:03 GMT
Brunswick Artillery has been mentioned on this site. I'd support that. very interesting set. |
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Post by steve on Jan 21, 2018 10:54:43 GMT
Brunswick artillery would be a great idea Hat already has two Brunswick infantry sets & a cavalry set (if you can find any available) so it makes sense to make the artillery as well. I think a another Brunswick leib set would be a good idea as we could do with more varied poses. The Bavarian infantry was supplemented with a fusiliers set this is always hard to find as it sells out very quickly I believe a similar Brunswick set would be just as popular. |
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Post by Steve W on Jan 21, 2018 11:23:14 GMT
Brunswick artillery would be a great idea Hat already has two Brunswick infantry sets & a cavalry set (if you can find any available) so it makes sense to make the artillery as well. I think a another Brunswick leib set would be a good idea as we could do with more varied poses. The Bavarian infantry was supplemented with a fusiliers set this is always hard to find as it sells out very quickly I believe a similar Brunswick set would be just as popular. Brunswick had two batteries at Waterloo - one horse and one foot. The horse artillery can easily be made with the Airfix RHA with spare heads from the HaT Brunswick Lieb Infantry, which just leaves the foot artillery, which unlike the horse artillery had two crossbelts. If HaT made the Brunswick foot artillery that would be great and I would buy one box. Not so for the horse artillery as I have already made that conversion. If HaT or anyone else made Prussian horse artillery I would buy many boxes. I'm sure those with Russian armies would buy Russian horse artillery in similar numbers. |
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