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Post by paintdog on Dec 11, 2017 10:32:44 GMT
I once had some very old Airfix Afrika Korps figures crumble with brittle plastic. It's also something I've read about on forums.
I decided to try an experiment so see if brittleness is a problem that effects more than some figures, made decades ago, with dodgy plastic.
The experiment began over 18 months ago. I left an old painted Esci Saracen outside in the Australian heat (seriously hot) & Australian winter (cool, even cold but not very). In rain & in direct sunshine, exposed to the elements.
To date, the paint hasn't shifted, the plastic remains pliable. As with all my figures, no undercoat of glue, just a good primer (I use Vallejo primers now & swear by them) & a spray topcoat of Krylon matt sealer. They're bullet proof.
I feel that brittle plastic won't effect the vast majority of my figures. Any comments?
donald
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Post by garpant on Dec 12, 2017 6:44:42 GMT
Now that's a great question I've got figures that are 50+ years old that are just fine and I've got figures that are 5 years old that are starting to crumble.I don't know what it is,are there's impurities in some batches of raw plastic or outside factors? For example I bought 20 boxes of ESCI Zulus about 30 years ago.I would say about 5 boxes or 20% have gone brittle but the rest are just fine.I've got no explanation and I'm no chemist so I don't know.I've got about 70,000 + figures I bought over the last 50 yearsand most of them are just fine but some have just crumbled and turned to dust. Curiously my 1960s Giant figures are just fine.It's been a good six or seven years since I did a real thorough inventory so I'll have to go through and check and see what's brittle and what's not.I don't think the manufacturer really ever gave much thought to the figures lasting 50 years plus.They probably figured by now most of them would be sucked up by a vacuum cleaner or somebody's mom would throw them away.
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Post by Chris Dodson on Dec 12, 2017 10:52:12 GMT
I have raised this issue before. I am now clearing my Ligny project away and unfortunately my Hat 1808 - 1812 infantry will not be fighting again as they have disintegrated. First it's the muskets and then the whole chap.
This is the soft plastic that I personally think is faulty. These guys are only a year or so old. Some Hat artillery horses have also succumbed.
This is not just Hat however as the Zvevda Cuirassiers swords seem to be joining in too!
Not good.
Chris
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Post by steve on Dec 12, 2017 17:50:42 GMT
Although I have not experienced recent figures crumbling away I have had my share of the older Airfix figures falling to pieces mostly the early sets type 1 Africa korps & German infantry & also the infantry combat group seem to turn brittle with age. I read somewhere that if you put the brittle figures in car brake fluid for a while they return to normal again I have not tried this myself but would be interested if anybody has had success with the method.  |
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Post by Malcolm on Dec 12, 2017 22:06:18 GMT
Those Saracens are hardy desert warriors. I bet that if you had done the same experiment with a ginger haired Airfix Scotland the result would have been worse.
Seriously, the whole thing seems to be a little bit of hit and miss, where some are lucky with their batch of soldiers and others from the same manufacturer but a different batch of plastic have all kinds of trouble.
Best regards,
Malcolm
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Post by grumble on Dec 12, 2017 23:16:17 GMT
I think it depends on how many cookie crumbs fall into the vat when the workers are mixing up a particular vat.
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Post by paintdog on Dec 13, 2017 13:06:48 GMT
I bet that if you had done the same experiment with a ginger haired Airfix Scotland the result would have been worse. Seriously, the whole thing seems to be a little bit of hit and miss, where some are lucky with their batch of soldiers and others from the same manufacturer but a different batch of plastic have all kinds of trouble. Best regards, Malcolm I can assure you, nothing is tougher than anything that comes out of Scotland. As my dad was fond of saying, "There are only two sorts of people. The Scottish & those who wish they were Scottish." I will concede he may have been a wee bit biased..... donald |
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Post by flashman on Dec 23, 2017 13:41:48 GMT
The Infantry Combat group are particularly susceptible; hardly any of mine still have heads. Old Airfix Romans are the same; nearly all are missing heads, bases or arms. And sorry, but my original Highlanders are now little more than rounded blobs of cream plastic. The soft things; they couldnae take the English climate.
Wonder if they could cast metal figures from those Airfix moulds...
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Post by Contrarius on Jul 14, 2018 17:10:12 GMT
My old Airfix figs painted in the early 1980s are mostly ok (touch wood), oddly one of the last units I converted and painted (French dragoons, converted from Airfix cuirassiers in c1991, is causing the greatest probs with horses’ legs snapping and swords crumbling to dust.
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Post by waynew on Jul 14, 2018 17:53:36 GMT
I've recounted this before so advanced apologies for those who've read it before:
My first real problem and the worst - was with ESCI Zulus I bought back in the 80s. I painted them along with some of their Colonial British Infantry hoping to do a real re-enactment of "Zulu" with actual figures designed for the subject. A couple years went by with major life changes before I got around to pulling them out to do something with them. I was shocked and disgusted to see they were already crumbling and not even five years old!
The next problem I had was some years later (in the mid-90s) when I was digging out my original Airfix WWI figures to help out with a history project and discovered my original WWI Airfix doughboys were just pieces and dust and some other figures were getting brittle, too. This was a real blow because those were one of the first Airfix 1/72 scale sets I bought that got me in to collecting 1/72 scale figures in the first place. But it is what it is.
From numerous discussions there are a lot of reasons for plastic to disintegrate - type of plastic, exposure, contaminations - even some dyes. As another has said it's a crap shoot. Exposure to elements can have effect on some figures by the same token I had some childhood toy soldiers I kept at my grandparents' house for visits I put in an airtight ammo box for safekeeping. I was digging around in my closet about fifteen years ago and found the box - opened it up and the guys inside were practically dust to the touch.
I hoped painting them would help somehow, but have seen painted figures broken in display boxes. I try to keep mine out of the light and away from extreme elements - and keep my fingers crossed. Makes it hard to paint but...
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Post by paintdog on Jul 14, 2018 21:52:06 GMT
- and keep my fingers crossed. Makes it hard to paint but... I'm assuming the cross eyes on your avatar are the result of trying.
donald
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Post by waynew on Jul 15, 2018 5:14:58 GMT
- and keep my fingers crossed. Makes it hard to paint but... I'm assuming the cross eyes on your avatar are the result of trying.
donald
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Post by Nap Painter on Jul 20, 2018 14:21:00 GMT
It really hurts to see fine work just crumble. So far my plastics have held up fine even my old Airfix figures that I have repainted several times over the years as my painting skills have improved. I have suffered metal "rot" with old ( 70s ) Ral Partha fantasy figures which was bad enough but I will be depressed if my plastics start disappearing as well.
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Post by Contrarius on Jul 22, 2018 8:56:33 GMT
Keeping them out of sunlight, esp direct sunlight does seem to help. My Napoleonics sat unused in a metal toolbox for over 25 years with no visible deterioration except to one specific unit. All I can guess is that that unit, the last I worked on in 1991 or thereabouts, must have been washed in something (bleach?) that caused or exacerbated the brittleness. Quite a few of my Airfix, Matchbox and Hasegawa WW2 tanks are noticeably more brittle, with many wheels, guns and MGs breaking off; most of them were in a glass display cabinet, where they gathered a light sprinkling of dust.
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Post by gerd on Jul 23, 2018 17:41:49 GMT
Hello,
I was told by a friend, who works as a chemist in a food laboratory, that the problem could be triggered by the furniture in which the figures are stored.
Since the 1970s, cupboards and shelves are often made of chipboard. These chipboards are made of wood shavings which are connected to a glue. This glue contains the chemical formaldehyde. In many cases, gaseous formaldehyde from the plates occurs even after years. The evaporation of new furniters disapears after some months and we do not perceive them with the smell anymore. But inside cupboards that remain closed for a longer period of time, a formaldehyde concentration forms, which can soften or deformate other plastics.
Have you ever heard of it?
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Post by waynew on Jul 23, 2018 22:41:00 GMT
It kind of makes sense to me; I always kept my figures in airtight plastic. First sealed containers and then ziplock freezer bags - I admit since I started using the freezer bags I haven't had trouble with plastic erosion. I don't mount my figures in groups though and make sure I don't pack the bags too full or too tightly.
Someone whose opinion I greatly respect suggested allowing SOME air-but no light- in.
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