Marc the plastics fan
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Post by Marc the plastics fan on Nov 27, 2020 9:58:12 GMT
Good morning all. After finding a set of Britain’s Deetail cavalry on eBay for over £1,000 (ouch) I once again find myself despairing at the lack of suitable 54mm cavalry - either Napoleonic or 7YW.
So, what’s everyone else doing? And good alternatives out there? Or do I need to cast my own?
I would dearly love Hat to make some suitable cavalry. I know that horses are an issue as they take up a huge amount of mould space. But anyone else interested enough to give HaT feedback?
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Post by Lunch on Nov 27, 2020 10:24:10 GMT
Aren’t Details figures painted?
How do other companies make 54mm cav? Does AIP use different horses, they make a lot of cav sets, don’t they? Another company makes generic horses with separate saddles.
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Post by rahway on Nov 27, 2020 18:00:49 GMT
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Post by pll on Nov 28, 2020 11:47:37 GMT
Thanks to Rahway for a pretty comprehensive assessment where those of us who operate in 54mm stand at the moment regarding Napoleonic and SYW cavalry with the dearth of anything (yet - we all hope!) from HAT in these realms. I have made do with what other manufacturers have been able to offer which at the moment is better for Napoleonics than SYW.
On Napoleonics I have relied largely on Expeditionary Force for British and French cavalry sets which are well sculpted and give you plenty of control over the arm and position options. They don't stray far from this Anglo French formula though. I have relied on Italeri in the past where the French hussar set allowed paint conversions and a few head swaps to create Russian and Austrian Hussars. I did have a lot of lot of fun doing some conversions from Exp Force French Chevau Leger lancers to become Polish lancers, Red lancers and Vistula lancers with a replacement metal casted head with an improved helmet capska with a large plume on the top from Alexanders Toy Soldiers in the UK who obligingly supplied me with enough for 15 replacements. From Hat's Napoleonic Russian command set I created an Austrian mounted officer with a few clippings of plastic to create a suitable crest of feathers on the bicorne for an Austrian officer. But I needed to find a replacement horse from Britains to provide the horse. I guess we will all need to do the same when the SYW Austrian command set emerges. I already have some ideas for officers for HAT painted SYW armies of Prussians, Austrians, Russians, Saxons, Bavarians, Swedes I have done already. The HAT Prussian infantry sets have been a life blood to keep any interest in SYW alive.
On the SYW cavalry front there is very little. The AIP I am not very convinced by because of poor sculpts of the horses and figures and the rather wooden unrealistic postures of the figures. Although I have bought some of their infantry and artillery options which are generally a bit better - especially in the Napoleonic sets. Which is why something from Hat in SYW cavalry and artillery would be so crucial. I would accept what was offer from HAT for most of the main armies as dragoons, curassiers, , mounted grenadiers, hussars. Even if not all the offerings are completely right for making conversions jobs across armies at least it would give some options to begin with which is what I have done with the Prussian SYW sets for several years. I realise their is a lot of diversity in uniforms and horse furniture across the armies which is maybe why HAT has been so slow committing itself to cavalry sets here. But that argument doesn't really apply to not doing much at all in artillery for either Napoleonics or SYW. I guess we just have to be patient and keep plugging away on making the case to HAT to do something. Let's just keep at it and keep ourselves enthused about the possibilities.
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Marc the plastics fan
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Post by Marc the plastics fan on Nov 28, 2020 18:32:11 GMT
A sad state of affairs it seems. I see a few references to the Ex Force figures but what I have seen of them suggests they are giants. The Italeri sets were good but limited, and sadly now hens’ teeth in rarity.
So it looks like home casting. Very frustrating but so be it
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Post by DAVE UK on Nov 28, 2020 19:43:34 GMT
May I suggest that you check out Helmet Soldiers based in Surrey, England. The kits originate from 1969 and still available. The website has over 30 x different cavalry kits in 54mm(or 1/32nd scale),mainly Napoleonic plus a few from the Crimean War plus spare parts list from a French basket hilt sabre to a Russian cuirassier combed helmet 1812. They also have British, Dutch and Belgian infantry from the battle of Waterloo period. Great potential for any Napoleonic cavalry regiment desired with easy conversions the kits are mainly polythene that is best glued together with superglue type adhesives. I just made a Bavarian Chevaux legere light horse cavalry trooper 4th Regiment 1812 using Helmet spare parts plus a hat Bavarian infantry ruppenhelm. If you havent seen these kits before then take a look might just answer your desires, check out the website: www.helmetsoldiers.co.ukcheers Dave
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Post by DAVE UK on Nov 28, 2020 19:57:02 GMT
also the cavalry troopers mount ok onto Britains Deetail horses, my last few sets were French 14th Cuirassiers 1810 wearing the old white Dutch uniform plus some French 13th hussars (ex- Westphalian Jerome Napoleon Regiment) so plenty of scope
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Post by rbhjr on Nov 28, 2020 23:11:55 GMT
In addition to what others have said, for 1/32 Napoleonic period;
A call to arms makes several excellently sculpted period sets; -French Cuirassiers -French (post 1810) Carabiners (convert to Aust. Kuirassier) -French Dragoons -British Life Guard (convert to Austrian Dragoon & ChevauLeger) -Scots Greys (Convert to French pre-1810 Carabiniers)
They are on the smaller end of the scale size-wise, but certainly 1/32 scale appropriate (especially considering even heavy cavalrymen were smaller than typical infantrymen).
Armies in Plastic’s AWI cav can be early Saxon heavy & light cav.
Armies in plastic lancers are good for Czapka-hatted lancers of all period factions/types.
Dulcop & Reamsa French cav sets (while more expensive & harder to find) also help fill out units.
Waterloo1815 French dragoons (same as Italeri) can be found at some sellers.
Timpo recasts are great for certain units & available at Toy Soldier Co
Cheers
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Post by Lunch on Nov 29, 2020 1:18:28 GMT
With all these sets available surely more isn’t needed and 🎩 should spend their time on other more needed sets
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Post by pll on Nov 30, 2020 13:52:00 GMT
Hi Dave (UK). I note your comments about the Helmet figures. I tried a few of their model kits a few years back. I found it quite difficult to create the fluid poses I was looking for. Getting the arm postures right by splicing through the arms and re-assembling didn't work well for me and was a nightmare gluing and setting. The same was true for the torso positions. The figures also remained very fragile and prone to coming apart. So for me they were a bit of as failed experiment. Maybe the glue I was using wasn't the best. The plug in arms on the Exp Force models I find more satisfactory.
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Post by DAVE UK on Dec 1, 2020 18:14:36 GMT
hi pll
I have been assembling the Helmet kits for years and they are easily done I use superglue (cyanoacrylate adhesive) to glue the main parts together and on some light cavalry I add a Britains deetail ring hand to take a deetail sabre, others I keep the arms intact for the heavy cavalry. I can drop my assembled figures on the garage concrete floor and they just bounce rather than breaking so it may be the type of glue you have used. cheers Dave
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Post by pll on Dec 2, 2020 9:36:03 GMT
Dave
I think think you are right about the glue. For a long time I used Evo-stick Multi Purpose Impact which seemed to work well enough for gluing HAT backpacks and arms to figures etc. Otherwise I have moved on to Loctite 60 Sec. which is thinner and sets quicker and can be applied more sparingly and effectively. The Loctite worked especially well for me with the assembly of the Victrix 54mm Napoleonics. It works less well in gluing the bases of Exp Force horses to their feet where there is more need to keep re-applying pressure to the joint to get it to successfully stay together. It's all about trial and error and finding what works best. So it is always good to hear what the learning is from others. Thanks for your suggestions. With superglues the tubes always seem so small and you can get through glue fairly quickly.
Paul
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Post by DAVE UK on Dec 2, 2020 13:42:29 GMT
Hi Paul - you are correct When I discovered my first Helmet Soldiers kits it was about 28 years ago in an old (long since closed down) model shop in Manchester and the chap there told me to use the contact adhesive, but I soon realised that its not a good way of fixing the parts together. I was going to give up on the kits but then tried the cyano superglue and it worked fine. The good thing about these kits is that they are good value for money and you can convert them into almost any cavalry of the Napoleonic wars.
some of the standard kits are:
French ; Cuirassiers general, junior officer, trumpeter and trooper kits , Carabiniers officer and trooper , Hussars (you get three head dress types - shako, colpack and rouleau shako), Line Chasseurs, Guard Chasseurs, Line Lancers, Guard Lancers Dutch and Polish, Horse Grenadiers, Eclaireurs, Line Dragoons officer and trooper kits, Empress Guard Dragoons trooper and trumpeter , mounted Infantry officer
British ; Lifeguards (can be painted as Royal Horseguards, the Blues), Scots Greys, Inniskilling dragoons (can be painted as 1st Dragoons or 1st to 7th Dragoon Guards), 10th Hussars, 18th Hussars (can be painted as 7th and 15th Hussars, or the Hanoverian and Kings German Legion hussars) Light dragoons both pre 1812 in tarleton helmet and post 1812 shako (paint as any from 3rd,4th,7th-9th,11th-14th,16th-17th,19th-25th regiments or Kings German Legion light dragoons), mounted line Infantry officer and mounted officer of the Royal Horse Artillery
Brunswick - hussars
Prussians - hussars and line lancers
Russian - combined kit to make either Cuirassier or Line Dragoon
Infantry pk 3 figures - British, Dutch and Belgian some of the kits with variant heads for line, grenadier and light infantry
also Crimean war 17th lancers parade and campaign kits - I have modelled these as the 16th (red) lancers battle of Aliwal 1846
For conversions maybe using other manufacturers spares I have modelled Portugese cavalry 1808-1814, Bavarian cavalry 1808-1815, Netherlands heavy and light cavalry Waterloo 1815 the other options being your research and creativity.
Also made several artillery crews using the helmet spares - Russian, Brunswic, Dutch versions and so on....
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Post by adam S on Dec 3, 2020 21:17:47 GMT
Hi, How do the size of the Helmet Figures compare to other...lets say CTA British or Expeditionary force Brits? Any place in US carry Helmet? Ref Ex Force sizing: The brits and Scots Inf are certainly larger than CTA Brits and a bit larger than Hat French sets. But the Hat French sets are pretty close to Ex Force French. In other words, the Ex Force Brit castings are minimally larger than their french inf sets.
Ex Force mounted Dragoons significantly larger than Italeri Dragoons. So different, you Cannot swop horses with riders. Ex Force much more detail and look better with seperate arm castings etc. I have some beautiful Italeri Dragoons but they cannot compare with Ex Force. There is alot of size difference even among same manufacturers. Italeri Hussar horses bigger than Dragoon Horses. Horses with Italeri allied cmd set larger than Ital French cmd set.
Ex Force sets have wide and tall bases. I remove the bases completely from kneeling figures and reduce 50% of height and they loo a bit better next to smaller figures. I have several Ex Force Brit and French Cavalry, and the figures are near identical in size. I really like Ex Force sets and have built and painted many. Paint Adhesion is wonderful...nothing compares to it. Ex Force is working on Old Guard Inf.
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Post by DAVE UK on Dec 4, 2020 6:31:13 GMT
hi if you check out Helmet Soldiers website they have a section on conversions and a blog showing many completed figures some using parts from other manufacturers. The scale is compatible with other makes like Britains, Airfix, hat, Accurate, Imex etc... The site shows a good conversion to a mounted US Continental Dragoon AWI.
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Post by Lenox on Dec 27, 2020 6:37:55 GMT
For Napoleonic cavalry, AIP makes some great hussars, light dragoons, and Czapka lancers in a variety of colours. The Classic Toy Soldiers Helmeted Dragoon Cavalry (offered in blue, red, and light blue) can work for several Napoleonic (and beyond) units. I believe half the set represents cuirassiers and the other half can double as British Life Guards, French line lancers, Austrian Chevauleger, etc. depending on if they are equipped with swords or lances... Timpo also made some cavalry figures that are still available albeit in limited numbers. Italeri had some excellent French hussars and decent Dragoons. The HAT French dragoons work as well but they are on the smaller scale of 54mm. Great for conversions though! There is also ACTA and some vintage plastics like Reamsa...
Until LOD Enterprises releases their AWI cavalry, 17th-18th century 54mm cavalry would be limited to AIP and Replicants for tricorns without converting figures from what I can think of off the top of my head...
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Post by pll on Dec 27, 2020 9:54:02 GMT
Hi Lenox
Are LOD really giving serious consideration to AWI cavalry - or is that more of a hope and wish you are expressing?
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Post by waynew on Dec 27, 2020 21:00:03 GMT
Hi Lenox Are LOD really giving serious consideration to AWI cavalry - or is that more of a hope and wish you are expressing? They had pictures of masters on display online - I think it was the "virtual OTSN" back in September. They looked great! So far Ken Ciak, who bought out Barzo and launched his own line has been pretty prolific in his 54-60mm output. I had half-expected/hoped the AWI cavalry to be available by Christmas.
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Post by pll on Dec 28, 2020 11:18:47 GMT
Thanks for the update Stan. It sounds promising
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Post by DAVE UK on Dec 29, 2020 6:56:32 GMT
Hi - currently assembled three French cavalry using Helmet parts - painting them as the French 30th Chasseurs / 9th Lancers 1813-14 period in very colourful lancer uniform: green kurtka with yellow facings (collar/plastron/skirts); red button overalls with yellow outer seam stripes and black leather leg reinforcements and red lancer czapzka. All carrying metal lances with yellow over white pennons plus sabre and slung carbine. These troops originated in Hamburg and taken into French line then converted by name to lancers. They were one of the more unusual outfits. Hoping to do a trumpeter and an officer next. thankyou
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Post by pll on Dec 29, 2020 16:20:54 GMT
Hi Dave. Sounds like an interesting project. Any chance you can post some pictures? Not quite sure if that is allowed or encouraged here. But I guess it will test their vigilance policing the site. As well as if they read all that is posted.
Paul
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Post by pinotnoir on Jan 1, 2021 1:36:23 GMT
Think these are Marx Mexicans and Timpo Poles before the Austrian recruiting party found them. On HaT horses of course. Ready for the infantry now!
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Post by greentiger on Jan 2, 2021 9:10:41 GMT
I think this (conversion and adaptation) is the only way - they look pretty good and I am trying this kind of thing myself - together with Irregular Miniatures riders on old Britains horses (though they are cheaper than old Britains Detail even with the horses)
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