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Post by cpn on Aug 24, 2018 13:57:42 GMT
Hi everyone.
Looking at the beautiful painted figures of the Nap command set coming, I noticed maybe wrongly that the NCO has a separate backpack+sword but the cartridge seems to be missing as it is not on the figures neither. Looking at the sprue, it really seems missing. As such I can deal with some "green stuff" but my point is as many others on this forum: I don't think extra bits as separate backpacks are useful especially if it complexifies the mould too much, rise prices for smaller quantities of figures and augment the time of production.
I think historical facts are soldiers were fighting with their backpacks but in different headgear.
This brings me to the other point; soldiers were fighting meaning using their muskets. So happy to have marching troops but action figures are needed as much as these marching ones.
I would have easily gave up separate backpack on the French elites in greatcoat if action poses would have been added.
If I can illustrate one of the best available and comprehensive box on the market is the Zvesda Russian infantry where poses are superb and versatile. Without this box, we wouldn't have any accurate Russian infantry on the market. The Hat French carabiniers are also amongst the best one.
So to conclude, separate heads yes. The rest is nice to have but not must have. Action figures are needed because muskets were fired and used.
Have a nice weekend.
CPN
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Post by Brian on Aug 24, 2018 22:42:52 GMT
Hi CPN, Well done for spotting the missing cartridge box, another knapsack with sword and cartridge box does appear on Hat's line drawing, it looks like hat had no space for it on the sprue and should of left off the knapsack with sword only, not a difficult fix but, lets hope Hat spotted this before production either way we will find out in a couple of weeks.  However have you noticed that the new French infantry with greatcoats have 8 knapsacks with cartridge boxes and five figures per sprue you could have a few spare cartridge box after all. 8297 french command
8234 french greatcoats |
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Post by cpn on Aug 25, 2018 6:09:02 GMT
Good morning,
Yes I noticed but good catch too.
I think it was a good example of where do we/HAT put the limit with extra pieces.
If I look at the future Russian nap infantry, clearly separate backpacks don't bring anything. I'd rather have extra heads with the 1809 shako and Pavlov mitre.
Have a great day.
CPN
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Post by Boney95 on Aug 25, 2018 12:17:26 GMT
Hi. I do a bit of re enacting in a French infantry unit and have to say that I spend most of my time moving around on the field with the musket against my shoulder. All the approach to contact is done this way, only just before firing or charging are the muskets moved into the appropriate places. This is for several reasons I think.
Moving in a tight, shoulder to shoulder formation with loaded weapons and bulky backpacks means it’s the only practical way to carry the gun
When turning, changing formation etc if the gun is not upright you all get tangled up, hit each other’s hats off or injure the person beside you..
Safety, if it goes off vertically you are not gonna hit anyone.
Muskets are heavy. It is the best way to carry it for any length of time.
As soon as you stop doing an activity (loading, marching in a relaxed manner) you go back to Porte arms
These are some reasons I thought of quickly why the marching pose should be the most common. Of course within marching there are variou methods of carrying the gun vertically and I think hat portray these very well.
I used to think there were too many marching figures but having done a bit of re enacting I realise it was the most common pose. Let’s not forget these troops were trained to do everything together at the same time (skirmishers excepted) so large numbers of the same pose should be welcomed.
Anyway, have a lovely day wherever you may be and be happy there such excellent 1/72 scale manufacturers around at the moment.
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Post by waynew on Aug 25, 2018 21:20:14 GMT
Thank you, Boney95, if you want to get a good example of what guys trying to move around with weapons not properly shouldered just watch an old "Three Stooges" or Laurel and Hardy movie. Throughout history soldiers' time has been spent largely marching and then waiting. Even in today's military much of one's time is spent moving from point A to point B and waiting - long periods of maddening boredom broken by episodes of bloodshed, chaos, and terror; it's just our means of transportation that has changed. Back then it was on foot.
For this period marching guys would be the basic foundation of any army, I would think. One can build on that. Perhaps HaT will.
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Post by Graeme on Aug 26, 2018 1:29:18 GMT
I understand the argument, that soldiers spent 99.99% of their time either standing around doing nothing or marching to the place where they were going to stand around doing nothing. That may well be true but it doesn't alter the unassailable fact that it is the other 0.01% of the time that is the reason we call them "soldiers" and not "pedestrians". I like action figures and I view marching figures as probably more correct but also kind of dull.
CPN.
You have to understand that a lot of HaT's customers are wargamers and most of them seem to want to build thier armies from mostly marching figures. And, wargamers buy a lot of boxes of each set too so they are a big part of HaT's market. Looking at the way most sets were made in the past (maybe two or three marching figures in each box) these guys were not well served and the old HaT forum was always full of requests from wargamers for more marching figures. HaT came up with the idea of seperate sets for Marching, Action and Command figures, which is great, everyone can buy just what they want. These new Napoleonic French sets are marching and command sets so no action figures. These are subjects already covered by HaT in the pre MAC days so there are sets with action figures already available and the new sets are specifically aimed at supplying the demand for more marching figs.
But, I think it's fair to say that there has been an improvement in sculpting so HaT should know that if there were new action sets to match the style of these new marching and command sets then I'd buy them and I know there are others here who would also buy them.
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Post by joe5790 on Aug 26, 2018 8:48:50 GMT
When I sent an email.asking about specific marching boxes, I was told that the plan is to have all three types of poses. So I am sure that HaT will get around to making an action set at some point.
Like it or not, the marching only sets are just better for wargaming for a few reasons,
1) units just look better overall when every model has the same pose, and since most of the game you are going to be moving the unit around and not shooting, any pose that shows static troops aiming or reloading just looks bad.
2) transporting all marching pose units is much easier, as you do not have to worry about breaking the muskets as much due to taking them in and out of the case repeatedly, potentially catching in the foam as they are being removed. There is no problem with this happening with a Marching pose model.
3) as stated above it is much more an accurate pose for the period than any of the others.
4) When units get into combat during a game, you don't get this situation when you have to fight with a model just to get it into base contact due to protruding bayonets, that may lead to said bayonet breaking off. There is no issue with this happening with marching pose models.
5) this one might not be true for everyone, but I find the marching pose models to be easier/faster to paint.
The main point though is number 1. Units just look better on the table in the marching pose, rather than a random assortment of poses showing various different scenes. However, those action poses are great for the lighter, skirmish infantry, and is in fact a good way to visually distinguish between the different unit types if you are using the same colour scheme on the skirmishers as the Line Infantry.
For example, the Swedish Line infantry and Jagere companies in the 1810 regulations were ordered to have the same uniform, with the only distinguishing piece of clothing being a green Kusket on the head gear for the Jagere infantry. So visually, they wouldn't be much different at a quick glance, but if they are in an action pose while the line infantry were all marching, then you can easily guess which is which.
If you prefer the action poses, that is fine, that box will come to the market eventually. HaT will not leave you stranded. But wargamers are probably the people that buy these sets the most, and they don't want to buy a box, find that there is only 2 poses and 16 models out of 48 that are actually usable, and be forced to buy another box just to finish one unit, binning the rest as they aren't usable for very much. The same can be said about those who only like action poses, but in mixes boxes your catered to much more than the other crowd.
That is a massive waste, and having the separate boxes to cater to both sides is the better solution.
I am impressed that HaT and HaT are making this effort, and I would hope the other manufacturers follow suit.
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Post by endeavour on Aug 26, 2018 9:17:41 GMT
Hi CPN, Well done for spotting the missing cartridge box, another knapsack with sword and cartridge box does appear on Hat's line drawing, it looks like hat had no space for it on the sprue and should of left off the knapsack with sword only, not a difficult fix but, lets hope Hat spotted this before production either way we will find out in a couple of weeks. However have you noticed that the new French infantry with greatcoats have 8 knapsacks with cartridge boxes and five figures per sprue you could have a few spare cartridge box after all. 8297 french command
8234 french greatcoatsI commented on a much earlier thread about the five figures to eight packs conundrum in the elites in greatcoats set but didn't get an answer, unsurprisingly. Maybe this is why there are so few figures in the box, as there's no room with all the surplus backpacks |
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Post by cpn on Aug 26, 2018 11:39:14 GMT
Hi everyone,
Great discussion that illustrates how differently we are using and appreciating our little plastics.
I like marching figures as much as a good attacking line or a nice firing/loading line that makes the games with my son more spectacular...to our tastes.
That said a cartridge for the French NCO is still missing.
Have a great Sunday.
CPN
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Post by Allan from Glasgow on Aug 26, 2018 12:56:21 GMT
Hi Guys,
I just put my order in with drum and flag in the UK for the new and lovely french releases (50 Boxes), My only issue is the fact the great coats sets had only 20 figs a box and even worse than that only three poses. the other two sets had six poses which if they are doing smaller sets should at a minimum be 24 figures and the six poses.
I find that the 24 figure (6 pose) box set could be a nice template for the old mac style and with less per box it could be set at a very competitive price point for getting more sales. It also makes planning out armies very simple.
I also wish that mounted command figures be in a separate mounted command set with the command boxes have a dismounted officers (1 mounted Colonel to 3-4 Battalions), It might also be possible to have command sprues with one mounted staff officer with the rest of mounted officers being of lower rank
hopefully hat will do a second set in greatcoats perhaps in action poses, what do you guys think or wish for?
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Post by endeavour on Aug 26, 2018 19:14:53 GMT
Elites in greatcoats in action poses would be great, but I'm not holding my breath
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Post by Graeme on Aug 27, 2018 2:51:41 GMT
An action set for the Elites in Greatcoats would be great, and I'd really like to see that officer in the 1/32 command set reproduced in 1/72 (second best figure haT ever showed us). I believe there are masters available. I think the poses in the marching set were limited to the number of masters available. These were originally made as a 1/32 set (see links below). HaT did tell us they would make sets which already had completed masters first. www.hat.com/Curr9/Bx9310FG/Bx9310FG.htmlwww.hat.com/Curr9/Bx9311FC/Bx9311FC.htmlAs I said I would like an action set and I'd be happy with one made up of those 4 poses but duplicating figures to give more than 20 figures per box would be preferable. And I really would like that officer marching with his coat tails flapping in the breeze. |
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However have you noticed that the new French infantry with greatcoats have 8 knapsacks with cartridge boxes and five figures per sprue you could have a few spare cartridge box after all.
