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Post by Edwardian on Dec 21, 2017 14:56:48 GMT
Guys, let's not shoot the messenger - clearly Admin can only tell what he knows/is authorised to say.
While I understand the frustration, things can only move as fast as they can move. I am sure HaT is sensitive to the need to maintain a reasonable release and re-release schedule; they want to sell product and, so, must be assumed to be doing their best. Communication could be better (when couldn't it?), but that isn't really in Admin's hands.
Oh, and I don't understand the idea that hobbyists will turn to another manufacturer at the cost of HaT; apart from some overlap in the case of the most popular subjects, different manufacturers tend to offer different things.
I would absolutely love to know when (or if) we will next see marching chasseurs, and when the new French marching sets will hit the shelves, but it seems to me that it is beyond my meagre powers to influence the timing and, so, I may as well cultivate patience with the best grace possible!
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Post by Edwardian on Dec 20, 2017 22:01:10 GMT
Yes as said before Hat makes better figures but HaT is miles in front customer care & information they (HaT) would have answered with complete list & shown a cheeky photo of a figure from a upcoming new set that had not been announced before.
I have always found HaT's release programme to be a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma
Which is, surely, half the fun?!?
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Post by Edwardian on Dec 20, 2017 18:45:36 GMT
A wonderful display. Very much enjoy the pictures of your wargames.
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Post by Edwardian on Dec 20, 2017 12:25:37 GMT
And the same from me to General Buonaparte and to everyone here!
Best wishes for Christmas and the New Year
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Post by Edwardian on Dec 20, 2017 12:22:18 GMT
Thank you. The relevant team has not released any information. Any information will be released when available.
I love these gnomic utterances.
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Post by Edwardian on Dec 18, 2017 8:31:34 GMT
All very interesting to see HaT in contemplating producing Landwehr sets. Even if I didn't have my order in for the HaT version, I'd almost certainly prefer the HaT over the HaT' figures.
I applaud HaT for their improved sculpting. However, a friend gave me a sprue of their Napoleonic Polish: good not great. IMO not nearly as good as HaT figures in general. I've ordered some HaT' Napoleonic Highlanders. This isn't hypocritical but because I don't think HaT will ever release this subject. None of my comments are motivated by blind partisanship but purely by pragmatism. Who releases the best figures gets my custom.
HaT only "beat" HaT in that they release their figures in a timely manner. This has been a factor in some of my purchases.
donald I agree. I have purchased the HaT marching British, Highlanders and Poles. I did so because they appear good enough and because I imagine that HaT will never produce such sets.
On the same principle, I am unlikely to want or need HaT Landwehr. On balance I prefer the best of HaT sculpting to the best of HaT, and there is just no need for the HaT once the HaT are here. I've pre-ordered the HaT, so my choice is made, but an announcement from HaT does not make me wish to revisit that choice. If the HaT Landwehr look good enough, I may be tempted by a box or two, but really I cannot see the need.
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Post by Edwardian on Dec 17, 2017 17:51:17 GMT
Not that fussed about Russians, to be frank. Really prefer French and Brits for SYW.
Aside from 7YW, it would be fun to tackle Dettingen, and, if there were better Jacobites available, Culloden.
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Post by Edwardian on Dec 17, 2017 17:32:14 GMT
Hi Edwardian, You can find some of the missing answers to your Excellent summary on the website below with some preview pictures underlined in red. www.howjust.de/pageID_7163306.htmlThanks, Brian, that's a very interesting link.
I see some very good things, including some great late Prussian Line Infantry sculpts by HaT, but I have all I will ever likely need from the HaT MAC set and, so, I am bound to question some of the choices, as well as welcoming others!
As regards Prussia, for any manufacturers out there who really feel the need to produce something for the 1813-15 period, rather than repeat what has already been done, and done well, by others, how about:
- Marching set of Prussian Reserve Infantry, featuring caps and single breasted coats, half with short tails, half without tails, trousers and Prussian equipment
- Landwehr cavalry, combining several variants
- Mounted Generals and ADCs
- Horse Artillery
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Post by Edwardian on Dec 17, 2017 11:07:59 GMT
The other manufacturer is also releasing Prussian Landwehr sets probably at least three sets maybe four, better get a move on Hat if their sets are out first It will hit sales. They are also planning some nappy French sets with both line & Imperial guard sets in the pipeline its going to be a great Napoleonic new year with another manufacturer(Redbox) releasing four sets of Russians as well. I will buy your sets Hat & all the others as well because I'm a greedy so & so. I assume you are referring to the so-called HaT "secret sets", which, apparently, are listed on the sides of the boxes but are neither featured on the HaT web-site nor, indeed, on PSR.
I haven't checked on the last HaT box I ordered, but, according to a post on Benno's forum yesterday, the list is:
168 Landwehr on the March 169 Landwehr Standing at Ease 170 Old Guard Standing at Ease 171 Old Guard at Attention
I post this for the benefit of the curious, because it actually took me some time to find what it was you were on about. So now I can at least save anyone else as ignorant as me the bother!
I note there is no mention of "French Line", so if you know something further, please share.
Prussian Landwehr
I can see how this fits with HaT's the British, Highland and Polish sets. However, I really cannot see the need for another manufacturer to producing further Prussian Landwehr sets given what HaT has is producing.
The same would be true if HaT were to announce Prussian Regulars (though a marching Reserve Infantry set would be nice!).
As a footnote, according to PSR, Waterloo 1815 is, apparently, planning a set entitled "Prussian Army and High Staff 1813-15", though there is no mention of Landwehr and, if I were cynical, I might guess that it was simply be a re-boxing of its Prussian Infantry set, with the 3 Italeri figures from its British & Prussian General Staff set as the "High Staff", with some of Waterloo 1815's own Prussian hussars thrown in. On the other hand, it could include Landwehr as part of a re-issue of Italeri's mixed Prussian Infantry set, but these figures really have little to recommend them, IMHO.
I never bothered with either set; the Italeri staff set was so padded out with second-rate cavalry figures, so not really as advertised, and the Waterloo 1815 Prussian Infantry, though not bad, came second to the Revell set IMHO. For 1815 Prussian battalions in regular infantry uniform, I have assembled a force comprising mainly HaT marching and command sets, but have utilised as many as possible from the Revell sets I had bought earlier.
If Waterloo 1815 produce a separate new metal Prussian staff set, similar to those for the British and French, that would be very worthwhile.
French Line
Not included, so-far, in the Secret-HaT list, but, again, there is not much room left by HaT, so why bother?
What is still needed for 1815 French is (a) Marching Fusiliers or combined Fusiliers and Elites in Greatcoats and (b) Marching French Command in Bardin uniforms (because HaT abandoned its announced set when the masters went astray). Other than that, I cannot really see the point of HaT reproducing what HaT has already done here.
Waterloo 1815 has produced a small, over-priced, marching set for 1815 French that only comprised Fusiliers. Not only were there no marching elite company figures, but they made accuracy errors with the Voltigeurs, so I cannot see any point to them once the HaT figures become available.
HaT have produced at least 2 marching French sets in greatcoats, but these have some absurd inaccuracies and in any case do not represent the improved standard HaT has now achieved. I cannot see that HaT would re-tool for something in its catalogue, but I think here is an opportunity for a manufacturer.
Old Guard
In an ideal world we would have a MAC format suite of Grenadiers and Chasseurs combined. What seems to be missing, IMHO, is a HaT Grenadier set to complement its Chasseurs, wearing campaign uniform, as the Zvezda set, doubtless with Borodino in mind, has the Grenadiers in full dress.
I think here there is ground for someone to produce more Old Guard infantry sets - marching and command, representing both Grenadiers and Chasseur in the same dress state - i.e. both in campaign dress. For greatcoat order I would suggest adding HaT Grenadier and Chasseur bearskins to HaT's forthcoming elites in greatcoats set.
BTW, HaT, please re-release your Guard Chasseurs!
Will the HaT announcements fill any gaps here? I am not sure I particularly have much interest in Old Guard standing at attention or at ease. We don't know if it's just Grenadiers (as is usually the case, yawn) or what dress order they will be in, but I am not immediately enthused by the news, I must say. Redbox Russians
Have not seen any announcements, so any details would be appreciated.
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Post by Edwardian on Dec 17, 2017 10:07:33 GMT
Oooh
Aaaah
Yes, based upon the comparison exercise, I don't think there is a problem using the HaT and Revell Prussians with Revell Austrians and the metal French.
What I have doubts about is fitting the Redbox Brits in with that lot.
The obvious answer would be for HAR to produce a 7YW British set.
And a French set
And artillery
And cavalry
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Post by Edwardian on Dec 15, 2017 7:55:16 GMT
I agree with the suggestion of staff officers as bonus figures, and, perhaps, a pioneer.
We rarely get staff figures.
Sized for the Revell Austrians, I would think.
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Post by Edwardian on Dec 9, 2017 17:03:05 GMT
Apropos the size debate, here are some comparisons.
I primed them quickly for the photograph (managed to scrape some off our HaT Prussian!)
From left to right we have (1) Revell Austrian, (2) HaT Prussian, (3) Revell Prussian, (4) metal 1/72nd French, and, (5) Redbox British
Based upon the above, I would suggest that sizing to the Revell set would not lead to a problematic disparity with the HaT Prussians.
The picture shows why I have not pursued 7YW, however. The French figure has a thicker base. If I mounted the British figure to the same height, I think these would just about work together. The thicker base on the metal figure means that I might just about manage to field the French with the Prussians and Austrians. French, British and Prussian/Hessian etc, would not work together, however. Minden's out, then!
Finally, I think the picture shows that there is space in the game for HaT British and French marching sets!
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Post by Edwardian on Nov 30, 2017 17:56:21 GMT
Bravo!
Excellent build, very well designed.
It looks great as it is, but for bricks and tiles, consider also Scalescenes
OO = 1/76 scale, so practically 1/72. If you want smaller bricks Eighteenth Century bricks, or want a smaller size to reflect the compromise, print the sheets at a smaller size. Suggest Artist's spray fixative to protect.
These were built to 90% nominal scale as an aid to perspective:
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Post by Edwardian on Nov 27, 2017 18:18:12 GMT
A very clever compromise that really captures the essence of the original. Look forward to its progress.
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Post by Edwardian on Nov 25, 2017 11:45:03 GMT
Please also take into consideration that some of these small sets have a large number of pieces all of which must be considered into cost. For example the French Command set has 92 pieces.
Fair point. Command sets, with alternative arms and requiring multiple pieces are perhaps a special case, though I note that the 8299 British Zulu War Infantry Command, which boasts 40 figures, 4 horses and, I believe, about 24 additional pieces, retails at £6.25, so 14p per-man or horse!
Perhaps the 24-man/4 horse 8304 British Infantry Command, which boasts 40 additional heads plus several separate arms, is a fairer comparison? What did that cost before it became unavailable? Assuming the same £6.25, that is 22p per figure, which I daresay is reasonable for a command set.
With marching Other Ranks, however, you just need a lot and you don't want to end up paying significantly more for the same number of figures simply because there are 2 sets of heads, only one of which you will use.
I would have preferred the set that was originally announced, with just the one head per figure, in a shako. I accept that HaT wants to cover an earlier period as well, and not have to make 2 sets to do it, as this no doubt saves HaT a large fortune in not having to make 2 sets of tooling.
The question is whether it costs me a small fortune because the sets are so much more expensive than they would have been if produced as originally announced?
Let's hope not, because I want 30 boxes worth of 8296 1805-1812 French Marching!
This is one of the finest Napoleonic sets ever made, IMHO. I only have the 1 set, and none of the matching marching Chasseurs, but it is everything a command set could and should be. I am glad that the Line will soon have its equivalent.
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Post by Edwardian on Nov 25, 2017 9:51:22 GMT
Once again, exquisitely painted.
The figures are just the ticket.
Mont St Jean here we come!
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Post by Edwardian on Nov 24, 2017 16:10:57 GMT
Well, I did wonder, all those guests with similar views!
Don't let this detract from the support for Brunswickers in the MAC format!
My take is this: MAC Austrians should probably claim priority. It's not a personal priority for me at the moment, but as Napoleon's most numerous and frequent opponent, and with new early French infantry due, it's an obvious choice.
But, I would back (and buy) MAC Brunswickers Leaving the Peninsular aside, at Waterloo there was a whole Division, with 7 Light or Line battalions with an average strength of 600 men each. Apply your chosen figure ratio and buy accordingly!
As someone using a 1:20 ratio, and hence aiming for around 200 figures, MAC sets would make a lot of sense!
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Post by Edwardian on Nov 24, 2017 8:23:19 GMT
I will make use of the extra Heads, swapping heads is a fairly easy conversion and extends the usefulness of a set, so they are worth paying a little more for them to be included in the set, just to note the Waterloo 1815 French Infantry Marching set has 24 figures no extra heads and retails for £7.99 (33p per figure), so I am sure Hat will price their own French Infantry set much more competitively. I certainly hope so too, but, forgive me, the set you mention is not a meaningful comparison because it is not a marching set. A competitive price must be judged relative to HaT's previous marching sets, where, as I say, per-figure costs of 13p and 15p have obtained.
Having said that, we can, I think, allow for a little inflation, but I would respectfully suggest that anything over the 18p per figure cost (currently offered by HaT's marching sets) will make the HaT set over-priced compared with its own and its rival's marching sets and risks providing poorer value for money than HaT's own Set 8095, 1808-1812 French Line Infantry.
I am bound to question whether extra heads equals extra value such as to justify any significant extra cost. You still end up with only 24 figures, whichever head option you choose. Only for those who happen to have a bunch of spare torsos exactly suited to the spare heads in this set will their inclusion represent a saving. Perhaps I could put it like this, a slight premium reflecting the flexibility of alternative heads is one thing, but making both 1805-1807 and 1808-1812 French infantry significantly more expensive to collect than marching infantry of other nations and Napoleonic periods is not viable IMHO. I'd have to look at alternatives.
I could have bought more of Set 8095, 1808-1812 French Line Infantry, but confined myself to what I thought were my immediate needs because HaT had announced a dedicated marching set in shakos for 1808-1812. Now I find that an 'all things to all men' set has replaced it. Fair enough. I shall not grumble at the labour of having to replace all the heads, but I shall grumble if it pushes the costs of the project up significantly. Or, rather than grumble, I'll post Set 8095 on the re-stocks list, with a view to buying them instead.
Finally, unlike you, I am not sure that HaT will price this new set competitively. How can I assume that in the absence of any pricing information? Of course, I hope they price competatively, but we have a new team, new products and, I believe, new materials, so it very much remains to be seen what we will be offered in due course.
The corollary of this is that I have no reason to believe that HaT will price these sets uncompetatively either. I am not suggesting that they will. In the absence of information, I am simply giving a bit of consumer feedback, in the form of pricing expectations as a regular 1/72nd plastics buyer, whose piles and piles of boxes are probably at least 4/5ths HaT, which underscores the importance of HaT's releases for many of us. Frankly, that expectation, for just 24 figures, must be a sub-£5 price. £4.25 (17.7p) is, I suggest, the approximate market-rate price for 24 marching Napoleonics, as that is almost at the upper end of the per-figure costs we have seen hitherto in marching sets. The higher the price gets above that, the fewer boxes I am likely to purchase. Too high, and, regretfully, perhaps I will purchase very few or even none!
Others will disagree and perhaps some will buy almost regardless of cost. I don't have the economic luxury of disregarding relative value for money, and, in principle, a consumer should not have to.
So, forgive me, but I just wanted to throw my perception of value for money into the mix for HaT to consider, along with all the many commercial imperatives that they no doubt face when trying to bring a set to market, which is a commendable endeavour with which I am sure we all wish them well. I hope that this post can be taken as constructive feedback to this announcement, and a remain incredibly enthusiastic about this release.
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Post by Edwardian on Nov 23, 2017 17:32:52 GMT
Brunswickers already exist in non-MAC format. The only point of more Brunswickers would be as a MAC release, and there were enough of them at Waterloo to make that worthwhile.
I'd do it before HaT does, if I were HaT
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Post by Edwardian on Nov 23, 2017 15:22:27 GMT
There are new pics on the Hat twitter page. There is something odd about the marching figures, the legs look like they are too far apart - the right leg looks too far back, not a natural looking pose imo. I wonder how hard these are, if it is possible to reposition the right leg with some glue I think they would look a lot better. I have no truck with social media, but others may find that useful!
8296 1808-1812 French Marching is now known as "pre-1812 French Marching", because it aims to cover the period from 1805, not 1807 (when the 1806 model shako first appeared).
So, the figures now sport bicornes of the 1805-1807 era (or, indeed, earlier), whereas the masters that used to be on the HaT site featured figures in shakos.
So, unless HaT is about to produce a true 1808-1812 set, as originally announced, some of us will be spending a lot of time de-capitating these new figures. Fortunately, alternative heads are included on the sprue. Less fortuitously, IMHO, this limits the figures to 6 per sprue, and, so, with the usual 4 sprues, we have a box of only 24, which is a small number by any standards, particularly compared with other Napoleonic marching sets.
The answer that suggests itself is to buy twice the number of boxes one would expect to! Well, I have no difficulty with this in principle, but it started me thinking of how HaT will price this set?
I wondered what views anyone might have. I am afraid I fall into the category of those who will notice if the going rate per-man of plastic 1/72nd Napoleonics is significantly increased in this set!
While there is no exact comparison with this 24-figure, alternative heads, set, there are a number of other marching sets that give some indication of the costs of building up battalions this way.
For instance, the HaT Marching Napoleonic Prussians gave us 40 figures (soft plastic), last retailed in the UK for £5.25 per box, i.e. 13p per figure.
More recently, we have seen Napoleonic marching sets including command from HaT (hard plastic) - British Infantry, Highland Infantry and Duchy of Warsaw Infantry - these are retailed in the UK for £7.99, and each set contains 44 figures, thus these are 18p per figure.
Perhaps a more meaningful comparison is HaT's SYW Prussians, as these have to accommodate alternative head-gear. They still managed 40 per box and currently retail in the UK at £6.25 per box, i.e. 15p per figure.
At 15p per figure, the new HaT early French marching set would be £3.60 a box. If the price were pegged against the most expensive per figure Napoleonic sets, those from HaT, the cost would rise to £4.32 per box.
While I recognise that the alternative heads represents additional costs, if this makes the per-figure costs too high, and out of synch with other sets on the market, it will affect sales.
I welcome an all-marching set, as it cuts down on the waste that most sets represent, as I generally use only a few "action" poses for a skirmish line. In this regard, HaT's Set 8095, 1808-1812 French Line Infantry, is far better value than most.
It contains 24 marching Fusiliers, 4 marching elites, and 12 marching topqrtes de colonne. In addition, I would use in proportion at least 4 action poses for the skirmish line. Thus, I am using a minimum of 44 figures from each box, which is still less than half the box. Still, it was a set that was extremely good value for money, so I reckon I was only paying 22p per figure used.
While we must accept some changes and price rises from time to time, I do hope that the pricing of these new HaT sets will be sympathetic and not be out of synch with HaT's major rival in this area. I confess, my expectation was that these would be 48-figure sets for around £8. Now I face the prospect of buying twice the boxes I had guessed I might if I want the same numbers. I hope the pricing will enable me to do so.
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Post by Edwardian on Nov 23, 2017 15:06:50 GMT
8169 Bavarian Fusiliers
The other Bavarian infantry set appears to be available in the UK, but Set 8169 seems to be sold out in the UK, though they seem to be available in the US.
Wouldn't mind a couple of boxes.
This set was restocked about a year ago & sold out within a month or two, I nearly bought it but assumed that it would be available for longer & so missed out. lesson being when you see hats restocks you need get in quick or lose out. I agree he who hesitates frequently loses out, but O did not realise that I had a use for them at the time (conversion to Baden infantry?)
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Post by Edwardian on Nov 23, 2017 9:59:01 GMT
So, 24 figures per box. That is useful to know, thank you.
Anyone interested in such figures is likely to want quite a few of them. Though I understand that much of the sprue is taken up with alternative heads, this results in a very small set; small generally and unprecedentedly small for a Napoleonic marching set. 24 figures is close to being a half-box worth of figures.
I hope, therefore, that it will be priced accordingly.
There is no exact comparison, but there are a number of approximate comparisons.
The HaT Marching Napoleonic Prussians gave us 40 figures (soft plastic), last retailed in the UK for £5.25 per box, i.e. 13p per figure.
More recently, we have seen Napoleonic marching sets including command from HaT (hard plastic) - British Infantry, Highland Infantry and Duchy of Warsaw Infantry - these are retailed in the UK for £7.99, and each set contains 44 figures, thus these are 18p per figure.
Perhaps a more meaningful comparison is HaT's SYW Prussians, as these have to accommodate alternative head-gear. They still managed 40 per box and currently retail in the UK at £6.25 per box, i.e. 15p per figure.
At 15p per figure, the new HaT early French marching set would be £3.60 a box. If the price were pegged against the most expensive per figure Napoleonic sets, those from HaT, the cost would rise to £4.32 per box.
While I recognise that the alternative heads represents additional costs, if this makes the per-figure costs too high, and out of synch with other sets on the market, it will affect sales.
I welcome an all-marching set, as it cuts down on the waste that most sets represent, as I generally use only a few "action" poses for a skirmish line. In this regard, HaT's Set 8095, 1808-1812 French Line Infantry, is far better value than most.
It contains 24 marching Fusiliers, 4 marching elites, and 12 marching topqrtes de colonne. In addition, I would use in proportion at least 4 action poses for the skirmish line. Thus, I am using a minimum of 44 figures from each box, which is still less than half the box. Still, it was a set that was extremely good value for money, so I reckon I was only paying 22p per figure used.
While we must accept some changes and price rises from time to time, I do hope that the pricing of these new HaT sets will be sympathetic and not be out of synch with HaT's major rival in this area. I confess, my expectation was that these would be 48-figure sets for around £8. Now I face the prospect of buying twice the boxes I had guessed I might if I want the same numbers. I hope the pricing will enable me to do so.
Anyway, best wishes with the release, they are great figures.
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Post by Edwardian on Nov 22, 2017 17:05:40 GMT
More exquisite painting.
What excellent and much needed figures. My only problem is deciding how many to buy.
We seem to have a single sprue's-worth as our painted sample: 2 elite company men and 4 fusiliers.
How many sprues in a box?
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Post by Edwardian on Nov 22, 2017 17:00:53 GMT
An excellent and useful release, superbly painted.
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Post by Edwardian on Nov 22, 2017 16:10:30 GMT
8169 Bavarian Fusiliers
The other Bavarian infantry set appears to be available in the UK, but Set 8169 seems to be sold out in the UK, though they seem to be available in the US.
Wouldn't mind a couple of boxes.
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