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Post by Edwardian on Nov 8, 2017 13:15:27 GMT
In an ideal world the heads would all be separate.
I have happily glued and pinned many a replacement head, but a couple of WW1 batteries and Indian battalions is one thing, regiments and brigades or divisions of Austrian infantry are quite another. But I'll work with whatever comes. The main thing is to be able to use the set from 1805 through to 1813.
I, too, would be interested in participating with crowd-funding these.
Thanks to Admin for letting it be known the Grenadier, Landwehr and Grenzers sets are planned for a re-stock.
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Post by Edwardian on Nov 8, 2017 13:09:21 GMT
This way madness lies!
They'll all be painted eventually.
Really, they will!
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Post by Edwardian on Nov 8, 2017 9:35:30 GMT
I think some "teamsters" of African descent. These would be dressed in cast-off European clothes. One might be a boy, others adult.
Or 'Africans', as they are often known!
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Post by Edwardian on Nov 8, 2017 7:22:21 GMT
Yes the Austrian's are coming, Napoleon's worst nightmare just has he had almost conquered mainland Europe those pesky Austrian's are back again. Just a few quick questions Mr Hat Admin, 1. Are these for Crowdfunding or normal E number release? 2. (True or False Round) Are these to be made in 1/72 scale? 3. (Picture Round) Will you be working from these 2009 Masters www.hat.com/Prev/Austrian/Austrian.html4. How many Heads do you think we can have on the sprue? I would suggest Helmets on figure bodies and enough Shako's for each soldier on Sprue or vice versa and 1 Grenadier Fur Cap on sprue 5. (Bonus Round) How many Bonus figure? 6. (Bonus Question) Instead of the usual suggestions of Sapper, Doctor, Officers etc, Can we Have Austrian's in Hungarian style uniform 1 Marching, 1 Shooting, 1 Advancing and 1 Officer? The Star Prize is a speed boat (but only if you live on 27th floor of a tower block 200 miles from the sea).
"6. (Bonus Question) Instead of the usual suggestions of Sapper, Doctor, Officers etc, Can we Have Austrian's in Hungarian style uniform 1 Marching, 1 Shooting, 1 Advancing and 1 Officer"
I was about to suggest this: Hungarian figures exactly as suggested.
The Grenadier head issue in some part depends upon whether the Austrian Grenadier set would be re-released in sufficient numbers at the same time, however, I would prefer the option of having a reasonable number of Grenadier heads in the new set. This need not be a full set; how about including Grenadier heads in proportion to the numbers of Grenadiers in Austrian formations?
I think it is fine to have heads included on the figures, and fine if these are helmets, provided that you include sufficient alternative heads (in this case shakos) to replace all the heads.
As an aside, I understand that 1809 saw some units still in helmets. if so, a nice mix could be achieved with this set.
Finally, if HaT could ensure stocks of their other Austrian sets were available, including the Grenadier, Grenzer and Landwehr sets that appear to be currently unavailable, that would no doubt help sales of the new infantry set.
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Post by Edwardian on Nov 8, 2017 7:02:23 GMT
More to look forward to.
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Post by Edwardian on Nov 8, 2017 6:55:19 GMT
I do like these HaT figures, and it is good to see such a well-painted set.
I also really like the church - very characteristic of those in the area of Belgium where the 100 Days campaign was fought.
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Post by Edwardian on Nov 8, 2017 6:48:50 GMT
beautifully painted and the figures look very good. I'm glad I bought them.
Ditto!
Well done HaT
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Post by Edwardian on Nov 7, 2017 18:00:33 GMT
A few general observations for any future Napoleonic sets: !. MAC is best. 2. For the action set, equal numbers of standing firing and loading figures please. My favourite figure is advancing with bayonet at the low port but I liked the way the Prussian Landwehr set also had advancing figures with higher pitched bayonets for the second rank. Again equal numbers. If an action set was half firing line and half advancing I'd be happy. 3. For sets with alternative headwear there needs to be enough of the alternative heads/hats so that making a whole unit with the alternative headwear is a viable option. The 7YW Prussian sets did this well and it seems that the surplus hats were very useful to people for conversions.
Very sensible points. I agree.
Please keep all 3 head options and enough of each.
For me, it is the existence of a marching set that really determines whether or not I would consider a new army. I would certainly now consider an Austrian army - if the 1808-1812 French line are released and the Chasseurs marching and command are re-released.
For preference, the re-stock programme would ensure the complementary Austrian sets were available at the same time as the new infantry sets.
I'm afraid I'm not in favour of mixing Hungarian and German leg features!
Bravo. Produce marching sets, command and some action poses (for a skirmish line) and I will start a new army! Every time!
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Post by Edwardian on Nov 5, 2017 11:11:38 GMT
Edwardian, you forgot to mention Red Box. So although at present I am more interested in the SYW AWI period I am still buying bucket fulls of the Early Renaissance sets that to date cover: Landershnect, Swiss, Italians Spanish and English. In fact I have just purchased the 1/72nd scale Airfix "Golden Hind" to use with the English sailors and a couple of ships boats to use with the rowing figures in the Italian Sailors sets. This company has dramatically improved its sculpting since the Boxer Rebellion sets. To agree with the general concensus, the slow trickle of sets from Hat is disappointing and the mis-scaling of the British Heavy and Light Dragoons was particularly frustrating. Best regards, Malcolm You are quite right.
The 3 Government sets for the Jacobite Rebellion are superb. Unfortunately the enemy, in the form of the 2 HaT Jacobite sets are not worthy opponents, IMHO.
I have been watching the Renaissance sets with interest. I agree that they are excellent. And very tempting.
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Post by Edwardian on Nov 5, 2017 11:02:26 GMT
Hello Chris, to honour your wonderful Ligny-Pictures i like to show you some pictures from the real Ligny-Battlefield from 2012. It was a wonderfull time-journey... "Nailing" the french canons.....the artillery-men "love" us for those jokes... But is better to nail their canons, before they try to fire to us... Before we could finish this job, they hasty evacuated their guns. Have no sense for humor, this guys.... This final picture is from the Waterloo-Battle 2015. I have made it in the middle of the fighting...see the gun powder smoke over the ground.. A scene like one of your pictures.. Gerd,
Great pictures and I envy your re-enactment exploits!
I learnt pretty early on in research that re-enactors are the people who really know their stuff!
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Post by Edwardian on Nov 5, 2017 10:58:07 GMT
Mr admin person you are a man of few words & little information Yes, but quite a welcome word!
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Post by Edwardian on Nov 5, 2017 10:53:06 GMT
I hope it is in order to start a new topic on this. I realise that these matters have been touched on in several other threads, but I thought there might be less chance of contributions being lost to view if they were concentrated in a dedicated topic.
Several members have made suggestions. I have a few.
I have a fundamental concern over crowd-funding cavalry sets. Man & horse to man, people will, presumably, always need more infantry figures.
That said, I am keen to explore the options for getting certain sets to market, and, indeed, means of resurrecting sets that seem to have fallen by the wayside.
So, I would start with the following suggestions:
- Prussian Landwehr Cavalry - It is a most significant gap, all the more so because we have been so well catered for with later-war Prussians. We have Line infantry and now Landwehr infantry covered, various figures suitable for reserve infantry, we have foot artillery and most of the regular cavalry types (uhlans, hussars, dragoons). As the 1813-15 Prussian army brigaded Landwehr and regular units together, any formation above regimental unit size is typically going to include a Landwehr unit, and this is true of cavalry as well as infantry.
There were a number of variations, so, I suspect the format would need to be one that covered 3 or 4 distinct uniform variations and multiple boxes might be necessary to give one a unit in each (depending of size of one's army and the chosen figure ratio. I favour an indulgent 1:20, and plastic 1/72nd, both in terms of cost and space, easily affords us the luxury of 'Grand Manner' formations).
Incidentally, I would love a Prussian horse artillery set, but suspect that is unrealistic.
- British Peninsular Light Cavalry - This is a disappointment that many of us share, and an opportunity for HaT to engage with fans and customers.
It seems implicit from what has been announced, that mistakenly producing them in 28mm precludes making them in 1/72nd. Of course, I may have misinterpreted that. I do not have any understanding of the manufacturing process, so do not understand how this might be the case. Is this a commercial or a technical issue? Can the masters be used to create a 1/72nd set/can they be re-sized, or would it be a case of starting from scratch?
In short, what is the nature of the problem here?
Is this a situation that crowd-funding/pre-ordering could unlock?
- British Peninsular Heavy Cavalry - Ditto
- 1815 French Infantry Marching Command - I understand that the masters were lost. I think it would be redundant to detail why such a set would be a good idea, not least if there is to be a marching set that will need topqrtes de colonne.
Again, is this a situation that crowd-funding/pre-ordering could unlock?
What might be other suitable Napoleonic candidates?
Is it going to be possible to get enough steam up in support of any of them?
Hi Edwardian, All 4 sets are very much needed and if Hat were producing sets as quickly as they did at their peek I would be all for them, but as you mention yourself people will, presumably, always need more infantry figures, I will therefore be pushing very strongly for the long awaited, even more needed 1/72 Nap Austrian Infantry. I hope you will support the Crowdfunding for the Nap Austrian infantry too and one day we can both request the 4 sets you mentioned. Brian Brian,
I agree. I will add my vote to the Austrians. If these figures became available, I would start collecting for these central European campaigns.
What is proposed? Is it just helmets, or are alternative heads with shakos proposed? Is it just 'German' regiments or are there 'Hungarian'?
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Post by Edwardian on Nov 3, 2017 14:34:06 GMT
Hi Edwardian. Re. the Penisular cav. As I understand it these were made under the old manufacturing whereby sets could be scaled up or down from one set of masters using a pantograph. If you ever used a drawing tool like this as a kid, that's a pantograph in it's simplest form: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantograph#/media/File:Pantograph_animation.gifImagine one of these with a cutting tool on the end instead of a pen, and you can move it in three dimensions rather than just two and you've got the basic idea. HaT's new system uses CAD so I suppose the masters are digital, sizing is done on the computer and the sizing test figures we saw were 3D printed. I'm not sure if this means the old masters can't be used for the new system or if the master figures can be 3D scanned to digitise them (although HaT have said that they are making sets with existing masters first). Either way I don't think the masters are the biggest hurdle. The figures were made in 28mm which means the mould was cut in 28mm and, I believe, cutting the mould is by far the most expensive and time consuming part of the manufacturing process. (note that HaT's moulds are not the relatively fast, cheap and short lived soft moulds some others use but are milled from blocks of steel). A 1/72 set would require at least a new mould. I don't know the situation with the 1815 command set but if the moulds were lost then a new set might have to recoup two lots of manufacturing costs before it makes a profit. There might be other factors involved but I think the bloke in your avatar would advise us not to speculate. Anyway, I would support all 3 of these sets if they came up for crowd funding(don't forget the heavy cav). I would buy them if they were made under normal production. Crowd funding might determine if resurrecting these is viable. The downside is if they don't reach the target due to peoples resistance to crowd funding they might be cancelled unnecessarily. I like the idea of Prussian Landwehr Cavalry too. And yes, we do need the various uniforms, or at the very least we need some figures in czapkas and kollets so we can head swap with the uhlans and dragoons (this would mean we also need restocks of the uhlans and dragoons). Although HaT have said they are working on sets with existing masters first.
Very informative.
Sounds as if it would be possible to produce 1/72nd provided the tooling costs could be met.
I would love to see the 2 Peninsular Cavalry sets, the Light Dragoons would be particularly adaptable for all sorts of light cav.
Turning to the Landwehr cavalry, out of the 35 cavalry regiments in the Prussian 1815 OOB, 15 appear to have been Landwehr.
Some, somewhat old scholarship, examples:
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Post by Edwardian on Nov 3, 2017 10:17:13 GMT
- Nap. Peninsular British Infantry - Nap. British Command - Nap. Wurttemberg Infantry - Nap. Waterloo Nassau Infantry - Nap. French Chasseurs (all 3 sets) - Nap. Prussian Line Infantry Marching All of these sets are guaranteed to sell out shortly after being restock, given how long they have been OOS everywhere. I myself will jump head on on a bunch of each just to make sure I'm not left out of the party for another couple years yet again (!).
I second Nap. British Command, Nap. Peninsular British Infantry and Nap. French Chasseurs (all 3 sets)
Of these, the sets that seem to have been absent from UK suppliers for the longest period are the Chasseurs marching and marching command (8252 and 8219).
These are top quality figures, and have been strangely unavailable for some considerable time, though the Carabinier (8220) and Voltigeur (8218) sets have never been out of stock. I have these sets, forlornly awaiting the rest of their battalions!
With (I hope!) the advent of their Line Infantry brethren before too long, those looking to make up French Brigades and Divisions of the period would doubtless welcome the return of the chasseurs.
Cheekily, I repost contributions form Frédéric Arénas and Mr Butterweck, so that we may be reminded of what we are missing!
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Post by Edwardian on Nov 3, 2017 7:42:53 GMT
I hope it is in order to start a new topic on this. I realise that these matters have been touched on in several other threads, but I thought there might be less chance of contributions being lost to view if they were concentrated in a dedicated topic.
Several members have made suggestions. I have a few.
I have a fundamental concern over crowd-funding cavalry sets. Man & horse to man, people will, presumably, always need more infantry figures.
That said, I am keen to explore the options for getting certain sets to market, and, indeed, means of resurrecting sets that seem to have fallen by the wayside.
So, I would start with the following suggestions:
- Prussian Landwehr Cavalry - It is a most significant gap, all the more so because we have been so well catered for with later-war Prussians. We have Line infantry and now Landwehr infantry covered, various figures suitable for reserve infantry, we have foot artillery and most of the regular cavalry types (uhlans, hussars, dragoons). As the 1813-15 Prussian army brigaded Landwehr and regular units together, any formation above regimental unit size is typically going to include a Landwehr unit, and this is true of cavalry as well as infantry.
There were a number of variations, so, I suspect the format would need to be one that covered 3 or 4 distinct uniform variations and multiple boxes might be necessary to give one a unit in each (depending of size of one's army and the chosen figure ratio. I favour an indulgent 1:20, and plastic 1/72nd, both in terms of cost and space, easily affords us the luxury of 'Grand Manner' formations).
Incidentally, I would love a Prussian horse artillery set, but suspect that is unrealistic.
- British Peninsular Light Cavalry - This is a disappointment that many of us share, and an opportunity for HaT to engage with fans and customers.
It seems implicit from what has been announced, that mistakenly producing them in 28mm precludes making them in 1/72nd. Of course, I may have misinterpreted that. I do not have any understanding of the manufacturing process, so do not understand how this might be the case. Is this a commercial or a technical issue? Can the masters be used to create a 1/72nd set/can they be re-sized, or would it be a case of starting from scratch?
In short, what is the nature of the problem here?
Is this a situation that crowd-funding/pre-ordering could unlock?
- British Peninsular Heavy Cavalry - Ditto
- 1815 French Infantry Marching Command - I understand that the masters were lost. I think it would be redundant to detail why such a set would be a good idea, not least if there is to be a marching set that will need topqrtes de colonne.
Again, is this a situation that crowd-funding/pre-ordering could unlock?
What might be other suitable Napoleonic candidates?
Is it going to be possible to get enough steam up in support of any of them?
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Post by Edwardian on Nov 1, 2017 15:13:49 GMT
Apologies for using the "d" word, I realise that you re-arrange them. Above all, I think it is a talent for composition that makes the scenes so successful; like the very best battle paintings made flesh.
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Post by Edwardian on Nov 1, 2017 11:40:14 GMT
It's a funny old world. Airfix has proved itself capable of some very good new kits in the last few years, but has demonstrated a complete inability to introduce new figures; witness the failure to produce the WW1 sets.
Revell's re-issues are welcome, but it doesn't seem to be doing anything new, while it is nothing sort of tragic that Zvezda abandoned its range in favour of those odd little Art of Tactic sets.
Waterloo 1815 are a mixed bag and Emhar still seem to produce the odd new set (though I don't care how much Plastic Soldier Review likes their new Napoleonics, IMHO they're retrograde in terms of a mix of poses all running round doing different things that make it hard to form them into a body of men!)
Caesar I like a lot, but they seem to delete sets and do not cover a huge range of periods, at least those that interest me. A bit of Polyfilla up the back coat vent, and HaT's early WW1 French are more accurate than Caesar's newly released version.
For me, there are just two manufacturers with 'critical mass' who are both sustaining and carrying forward 1/72nd plastics.
One of them, and I didn't see that coming, is HaT, which seems to be pulling off an ugly duckling to swan stunt with Napoleonic marching sets, Arab Revolt and Roman Auxiliaries.
The other, of course, is HaT.
While HaT has a large catalogue, most of it is, frankly, not to my taste in terms of the sculpting. HaT have a few sets that would bear re-tooling, e.g. Nap. French Line Lancers (there are problems with Waterloo 1815's).
Clearly HaT has a head start in terms of the number of sets, breadth of coverage and quality.
I would say there is room for both. I am, for instance, planning to use HaT Arab Revolt figure for Ottoman Arab irregulars in Mesopotamia to complement the HaT Empire and Ottoman armies. In due course I hope to see a HaT marching set of French Bardin uniform infantry facing HaT marching British Infantry and HaT marching Prussians.
I sincerely hope that, whatever happens to other manufacturers, HaT will support its 'back-catalogue' with re-stocks and expand its range.
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Post by Edwardian on Oct 31, 2017 16:00:08 GMT
De nombreux sets sont manquant, il reste beaucoup de chose à faire.
Les premières idées qui me viennent, sont: Des civils pour toutes les époques (Epoque Napoléonienne, deuxième guerre mondiale (Russe, Français, Polonais, Grecs, etc....), des marchands arabes époque coloniale, infanterie Spartiate, différentes nations indiennes, dragon à pied de l'époque napoléonienne, infanterie et cavaliers Mexicains époque Zapata, des officiers et sous officiers de différentes armées pour la seconde guerre mondiale, des personnages d'état major pour la seconde guerre mondiale, des gourmiers Marocains deuxième guerre mondiale, des gendarmes français deuxième guerre mondiale, des unités de police militaire deuxième guerre mondiale, des personnels de santé et des infirmiers deuxième guerre mondiale, des transmetteurs officiers et servants deuxième guerre mondiale, des fusiliers marins français deuxième guerre mondiale avec des bachi et des casquettes, etc.....
Serait il possible de faire des véhicules en plastique moue (comme la marque ATLANTIC), avec un montage rapide sans colle et très peu de pièces ? Some of these at least are available from other manufacturers, though not in HaT-style pastic sets, e.g. Napoleonic civilians and Arab civilians.
Also in resin or metal, you can pick up all sorts of WW2 command, civilian, medical etc figures.
In plastic, HaT produced French Foot Dragoons in part of a set, and I had a feeling that someone was planning another set of them?
I'd like to see mid to late Nineteenth Century civilians.
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Post by Edwardian on Oct 31, 2017 9:48:54 GMT
Pathans
Lots of them. In a big box.
All we have in plastic 1/72 is part of a box of another manufacturer's discontinued 'Muslim Warriors"
We already have great Indian Army infantry and cavalry
So a lot of possibilities would be created if we added:
- Second Afghan War British Infantry (home service trousers)
- North West Frontier late 19th century infantry (Slade Wallace equipment)
- Indian crews with screw guns
Carry On Up the Khyber!
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Post by Edwardian on Oct 31, 2017 9:26:51 GMT
Edwardian, I tried to quote your post in this post but it led to an attempted assault by malware, so I'll just reply about your comment on bandoliers without the quote. I converted the HaT (Airfix) Gurkhas to WW1 style by removing the Bren pouches and adding bandoliers adapted from the WW1 cavalry sets. Worked nicely, IMO. Grumble
That is very helpful, thank you.
It's nice to have some scope left for a little converting!
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Post by Edwardian on Oct 31, 2017 9:25:16 GMT
Dear Hat, What happened to the three beautiful sets n° 8294, 8296, 8927, all concerning Nap infantry? They seemed to be ready for production not needing further refinements. Then Waterloo 1815 issued its own sets on the same subject and the process of your production had been interrupted. To me the two kind of products of the two manufacturers are rathrer different both in terms of poses, quality, and subjects. I think therefore that there is still a wide space on the market for your products. Regards. Giovanni.
Have you seen this Painted Command?
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Post by Edwardian on Oct 31, 2017 9:22:05 GMT
My sense from forums in this, and other modelling hobbies, is that a little bit of responsiveness from a manufacturer always goes a long way to preserve the store of goodwill that products with a following engender.
By the same token, it is good when the customer base responds with understanding and measured expectations.
HaT has been a veritable golden goose over the years. Yes, it is always possible to spot some obvious omissions; no one, HaT included, has yet produced a definitive set of Napoleonic French infantry, though the posting of the painted command shot suggests that this is about to change in relation to the 1808-1812 period at least.
It is healthy to encourage the range to develop, but I always have in mind how HaT has already almost single-handed revolutionised plastic 1/72nd figure.
We have more periods/theatres, better coverage of them, and a general trend of improving quality and accuracy. Another great innovation has been the dedicated marching sets, and thought is given to the need for pre-rapid fire rifle wargamers to rank-up their troops.
As a result, there is a world of possibilities that simply did not exist pre-HaT.
Some old sets could, frankly, do with "re-tooling", and I am really not a fan of the very soft plastic that has been used in recent years, but, I am sure HaT will continue to go from strength to strength.
You only have to imagine a world without HaT products. We'd probably be spending a lot more money on rather fewer 28mm figures if HaT had not existed.
I wish the newly invigorated HaT every success.
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Post by Edwardian on Oct 31, 2017 9:02:56 GMT
I am delighted to hear that "Prussian equipment" may be in the wings.
While this is a huge range, and simply re-stocking it must be a terrific undertaking. Given this, and with so may new sets already in development, I hesitate to suggest another, but Prussian Landwehr cavalry was very numerous in the 1813-15 period, so, just as you cannot really build up Prussian infantry brigades without Landwehr infantry, you really need Landwehr cavalry in order to build up cavalry formations, and HaT has most of the regular cavalry types in the range already.
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Post by Edwardian on Oct 31, 2017 8:56:31 GMT
My Goodness.
This appears to be set #8297, 1808-1812 French Command!
Does the appearance of a painted set betoken imminent release?
Beautifully painted, and well-sculpted, these are really attractive, useful and practical poses.
With these and the marching set, we can finally roll out the Big Battalions of the mid-Imperial Glory Days.
I am absolutely thrilled to see these.
We can really game in the Grand Manner with these!
Thank you.
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Post by Edwardian on Oct 30, 2017 22:07:49 GMT
Epic!
In my mind's eye, this is the effect my humble wargames units have, but your battle recreations are the real thing.
I don't think I have seen better evocations of a Napoleonic battle than your dioramas.
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